Okay, WTF
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there should be option to get popup when a nation takes a mission. If they take "claims into India" just sell them a core of yours there.
Btw, do the missions like that end when they get core on t or when they take the land? If its the first, Alliance might still go bonkers.
Btw, do the missions like that end when they get core on t or when they take the land? If its the first, Alliance might still go bonkers.
Update:
France have continued their schizophrenic relationship. First they loved me again (after the events I wrote in the main post), then they suddenly wanted the same few provinces again with a -200 modifier and hostile... then they loved me again and then they desired them for a -200 bonus again. This is pretty lame. It's not a natural change as there is just a silly game mechanic that makes them this weird..
France have continued their schizophrenic relationship. First they loved me again (after the events I wrote in the main post), then they suddenly wanted the same few provinces again with a -200 modifier and hostile... then they loved me again and then they desired them for a -200 bonus again. This is pretty lame. It's not a natural change as there is just a silly game mechanic that makes them this weird..
it likely depends on your military rating vs theirs. The weaker you are, the more a militarist ruler will want your provinces. The stronger you are, the more threatened a diplomat ruler will be.
You know, I just had this happen to me when playing a reformed Naples allied with Byzantium. I control Rome. Me and the Byzzies have been holding back the Ottomans and Timerids for awhile, and there is a renewal of the roman empire of sorts. Both of us have the Ottomans set as rivals. The Byzzies have all of the Greek side of Constantinople, and together our fleets can easily push back any efforts that the Ottomans can try to send against us. We can't beat the combined Muslim armies, but we don't have to.
Then Byzantium takes the mission to restore the Pentarchy, getting a CB to take Rome from me. Instantly switch to hostile relations and terminate our alliance. A few months later, they get invaded by the Ottomans and are completely crushed without my alliance. Probably a really bad expression of the game mechanics there. They hadn't even taken Anatolia back before trying to take Rome, from their greatest ally no less.
Then Byzantium takes the mission to restore the Pentarchy, getting a CB to take Rome from me. Instantly switch to hostile relations and terminate our alliance. A few months later, they get invaded by the Ottomans and are completely crushed without my alliance. Probably a really bad expression of the game mechanics there. They hadn't even taken Anatolia back before trying to take Rome, from their greatest ally no less.
And this is why I don't play ironman. Half-finished mechanics break the game and ruin your day because RNGesus hated you for a split second. My Italian game went the exact same way; Byzantium reconquered by the Ottos. Call me a cheater, but I just tag switch when stupid BS happens.
As for the main topic, I agree with the earlier suggestion that, at least, it could be changed so that it's a gradual shift in opinion. To make it even better, though, we could have the ai calculate if there are any other possible routes to completing the mission. If there are, then it would not apply the modifier/get the claims on you.
If it was indeed the mission to India that made France suddenly turn hostile, then they should have gone after Orissa, whom was an enemy of mine, as well as much weaker (especially thinking I already had a spring-board for a war in my Indian provinces. It annoys me that the AI won't think of that
It really is a sucky game mechanic. What's worse is that the AI sometimes picks on you and desires a random province it has no right to desire. In an old game I was playing as Aragon the Papal States, totally at random, decided they would hate me for the rest of the game because they desired some of my land.
Can you guess which bit of my land they desired? Did you guess Naples, Sicily or Sardinia? There's kind of a justification for them desiring those lands, right? They are, afterall, ancient Roman lands and they make up Italy which the Papal States might want to form for itself.
Well you're wrong... because they desired the Balearic Island. I had a permanent negative relation with the Pope because he desired an island which it was literally impossible for him to ever fabricate a claim on.
Can you guess which bit of my land they desired? Did you guess Naples, Sicily or Sardinia? There's kind of a justification for them desiring those lands, right? They are, afterall, ancient Roman lands and they make up Italy which the Papal States might want to form for itself.
Well you're wrong... because they desired the Balearic Island. I had a permanent negative relation with the Pope because he desired an island which it was literally impossible for him to ever fabricate a claim on.
"Oh Netherlands, how I love thee, yet hate thee, yet love thee again, yet utterly despise thee for those provinces on the other side of the world!"
This is the kind of thing that annoys me. If a powerful, formerly friendly AI suddenly turns on me and that puts me in a bad situation, then so be it, that's how diplomacy works. A country doesn't have friends, only interests. But when an AI country is tricked into committing suicide just to spite its erstwhile protector, something has gone seriously wrong.
I think AI countries facing a single overwhelming threat (e.g. Byzantium vs Ottomans) should go into survival mode and be friendly with *everyone* who isn't a friend of the threat - they should be desperate to find any allies who can save them from disaster. This attitude would also help AI countries defend themselves against a rampaging human player, rather than exhausting themselves on petty squabbles while the wolf is at the door.
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France is a right bastard, even in history against puny little Holland.
well, those belgian waffles always will lead to the French declaring war sooner or later, to end the ridiculous high import taxes for them. Or when the French king wants free tulips to decorate versailles.
This issue could be easily solved by implementing a ticking Long-Term Ally bonus along the lines of the inherent Historical Ally bonus some nations get, which would massively reduce - if not remove - the chance of the AI becoming hostile towards the target unless something actually happens - and silly little random missions don't count - to deteriorate the bonus.
I think this is sort of what trust does. if you repeatedly accept CTA from your ally then trust levels increase, which in turn improves diplomatic relations.
Although the main problem is the Indian and Indonesian missions, so I don't think it would solve the problem.
So "Wants your province" got broken again? It worked fine for a while and now the flip-flap opinion changer is back...
Basically there should be a limit on the maximum negative amount and on the number of provinces one country wants from another one. In one of my earlier games as Saxony I allied Austria and since we both conquered Bohemia they had a -20 malus for 4-5 provinces. But then suddenly their relation dropped - they wanted my whole realm now (on which they had no claims) and went for -200 "wants your provinces". There was no apparent reason for that change.
Basically there should be a limit on the maximum negative amount and on the number of provinces one country wants from another one. In one of my earlier games as Saxony I allied Austria and since we both conquered Bohemia they had a -20 malus for 4-5 provinces. But then suddenly their relation dropped - they wanted my whole realm now (on which they had no claims) and went for -200 "wants your provinces". There was no apparent reason for that change.
It never worked right.
It's been decent, but never right.
Easiest way to check it is as the Swiss.
Ally France.
France gets incorporate savoy mission.
Attack savoy with France on tow.
Grab cores.
The day the peace deal goes through France will break alliance due to a -182 wants provinces and a hostile attitude. Then their mission missfires, the relation penalty is cleared, attitude normalized, and then they will even send you a new alliance offer if your relations still allow it.
This have been the case with ALL missions caused to missfire by 3rd party since introduction.
The Muscovite Novgorod mission works the same way.
As does ALL the conquer minor missions.
The problem with this is that while the relations penalty makes sense against some people they don't against all.
Furthermore, it's clearly an AI crutch so the AI doesn't have to take relations into consideration before declaring war. As the system for WyP is the AI can never get a stab loss for "having good relations."
This is why it is in no way comparable to a human backstabbing the AI. Unless you prepared for it the wardec will cost you 1 stab.
I think the modifier is ok, actually.
I just want to be able to set it for myself against other nations as well, and all would be great.
Some people here are confusing 2 things. I am sure the OP isn't saying that AI shouldn't betray. It should but only with some thoughts put in that. For example if your ally gets too strong & is involved at several fronts in war at the same time, then the you could decide to betray because well that is the perfect opportunity to do so & the AI should do the same as that makes sense. What the AI currently does is that it mindlessly breaks the alliance without thinking of the consequences (for some stupid 5 prestige mission), pisses of the human player & ends up being a OPM when human player & its other foes unleash their wrath together on the foolish AI.
For example in one of my game as Najd pre 1.8, I was continously helping Ottomans against Russia & Austria and we were giving quite a beating to both of them. Then suddenly during the war against Russia & Austria, Ottomans decided to break their allaince with me & turn against me. This made it possible for me, Russia & Austria to eat the whole Ottoman Empire. If I would have betrayed Ottomans it would have made sense as Ottomans were already surrounded by foes but Ottomans breaking the alliance was total BS & it was no excuse for realism blah blah blah!!! In short AI should betray but only when it can use it to it's advantage, not when it will end up getting its butt handed over.
For example in one of my game as Najd pre 1.8, I was continously helping Ottomans against Russia & Austria and we were giving quite a beating to both of them. Then suddenly during the war against Russia & Austria, Ottomans decided to break their allaince with me & turn against me. This made it possible for me, Russia & Austria to eat the whole Ottoman Empire. If I would have betrayed Ottomans it would have made sense as Ottomans were already surrounded by foes but Ottomans breaking the alliance was total BS & it was no excuse for realism blah blah blah!!! In short AI should betray but only when it can use it to it's advantage, not when it will end up getting its butt handed over.
Odd. I haven't seen any issues with this so far with nations that would normally be hostile to me. As long as I had kept relations very high and in an alliance, using all available diplo options and building trust...no probs.
It can also depend on the AI ruler's behavior. If they are diplomatic or a colonizer I don't think they have many 'wants provinces' modifiers unlike a balanced or aggressive ruler.
I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't working somehow though. Seems like a few things that were sort of resolved in 1.7 were somehow broken again in 1.8.
It can also depend on the AI ruler's behavior. If they are diplomatic or a colonizer I don't think they have many 'wants provinces' modifiers unlike a balanced or aggressive ruler.
I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't working somehow though. Seems like a few things that were sort of resolved in 1.7 were somehow broken again in 1.8.
Relations are fine. Wants your provinces is fine.
Missions are dumb, and from what I hear, directly ported from EU3.
They should really fix them in the next patch/DLC.
Missions are dumb, and from what I hear, directly ported from EU3.
They should really fix them in the next patch/DLC.
basically, ally france if you conquer the other way.If you conquer towards them and take a border with them, sorry, but you are a fool to think they will stay friendly...
I learned it the hard way by thinking Burgundy would stay friendly to me as FOIX in the long run, when i ate entire France.
If you conquer towards them, prepare to have them as lunch next.
Switch allies, and go on.
If you don't like that allies betray you, betray them first.
Its just ...EU4.
I learned it the hard way by thinking Burgundy would stay friendly to me as FOIX in the long run, when i ate entire France.
If you conquer towards them, prepare to have them as lunch next.
Switch allies, and go on.
If you don't like that allies betray you, betray them first.
Its just ...EU4.