Many people on this forum have said they want playable republics and theocracies. I want this too. How will this work with CK2's mechanics?
Ok, we want republics and theocracies. How do you make them playable?
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I suppose a simple solution would be allowing us to continue playing even with a heir from outside of our dynasty. Is there any reason this couldn't work?
The easy fix would be playing without the "change of dynasty = end of game" which is the main deal of CK. This is easier with republics in that a barebones version already exists with the elective law already in place, but Theocracies would require a DLC for the Catholics for more in depth Curia Politics and have that emphasis be there for them rather than the massive expansion of temporal power you tend to do as a king/serene doge.
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I'd rather they fixed all the damn bugs from 1.07 than worry about republics and theocracies.
Well, first, I'd say it'd be nice if we could pick which heir we want to play as.
Why can't I let the AI take over Francia for me? I might want to play as my second son who was made a Bishop, and ask my brother to make me an AntiPope and press my claim. The power of the church is strong, and even if I can't have a literal lineage descended from that character, who cares? The game ends if you run out of family, not if you die without a son.
As for Republics, that's a tad bit more complicated.
Why can't I let the AI take over Francia for me? I might want to play as my second son who was made a Bishop, and ask my brother to make me an AntiPope and press my claim. The power of the church is strong, and even if I can't have a literal lineage descended from that character, who cares? The game ends if you run out of family, not if you die without a son.
As for Republics, that's a tad bit more complicated.
Playable theocracies aren't plausible. Either you need to break the dynastic component that is so central to what CK is, or you have to create a scenario where every bishop is cast in the mold of Alexander VI, making babies and grooming them for church positions.
I could see Republics working if your survival depended on getting your heirs elected to follow you, which had better be a dynamic and engaging process because the rest of republic gameplay is likely to be boring as death.
Honestly the amount of wacky gimmicks necessary to make either of these worthwhile inclusions is just time that could be better spent refining what this game is actually about. Spend the time making mechanics for interacting with republics, churches and holy orders instead.
I could see Republics working if your survival depended on getting your heirs elected to follow you, which had better be a dynamic and engaging process because the rest of republic gameplay is likely to be boring as death.
Honestly the amount of wacky gimmicks necessary to make either of these worthwhile inclusions is just time that could be better spent refining what this game is actually about. Spend the time making mechanics for interacting with republics, churches and holy orders instead.
I think you could almost make another game out of merchant republics (and almost would need to to do them justice). You would have to toss out the dynasty requirement (Venice had a requirement that the doge could not be two members of the same family in a row, and other cities had a fair interest in doing something similar) You could have a 'possible successors' minigame where you try to guide your choice of successor (erm, except you would need to make the AI less frustratingly obtuse, and you do risk strings of genius/grey eminence/kind/just/diligent/gregarious/brave doges). MRs would tend to have natural interest in cities, and taking control of them (downside, as we all know, split county wars are a pain in the butt, so diplomatic options with the county holder probably need to be included, and there probably needs to be a CB for the AI to attack cities without having to do it 1 by 1 with a 10 year truce each time). The other big feature of merchant republics was trade development (so for eg the Italians started building offices/trade posts/ and merchant quarters outside their own cities, Hanse built guildhouses out of their area(London, Bruges, Novgorod), and developed trade routes eg to the Orkneys and Iceland, but you pretty much would have to add a new system of income for that.
Theocracies, when large & independent, tended to be elective of sorts (as in there were enough sponsored candidates for the throne that one dynasty couldn't count on getting it every time), but eg the papacy would have numerous possible successors including ones supported by the French, HRE and any no of Italian families. Also not sure how your theocracy is going to gain/lose influence (ie, what is your theocracy going to do?). Any ideas?
Theocracies, when large & independent, tended to be elective of sorts (as in there were enough sponsored candidates for the throne that one dynasty couldn't count on getting it every time), but eg the papacy would have numerous possible successors including ones supported by the French, HRE and any no of Italian families. Also not sure how your theocracy is going to gain/lose influence (ie, what is your theocracy going to do?). Any ideas?
Nope. The real solution would be to leave the game dynastic. Your job as a Doge or a Bishop is to try to get a relative appointed your successor. If you fail, it's Game Over.
I would like it to play a landless nobel leader of a republic. And I must try to became the power back to my family. So you must intrigate, corrupt etc. to be elect. And for this you need money! And for money you need trade...
With my idea it would end, if your dynasty die out. I don't like playable republics without a dynastic system. Eventually you family can lose the power, if you are bankrupt. Hm...
I think the real solution is don't allow it in CKII, and create a new game for playing the merchant republics of the period (perhaps in the manner of East India Company)
Personally I am doubtful if playable theocracies and republics is something for CK2. Since my idea how to make republics playable is that Paradox would need to make barons and landless nobles playable. So you can play a member of a noble merchant or banker family and try to get yourself or your son elected as Doge. CK2 as it is now is centered around landed nobility.
EDIT: Note that I personally think such a game would be totally awesome. Where you play the head of an unleaded noble family in the court of a medieval republic. Investing in trade to get richer, assassinating and bribing other nobles to get your son elected as Doge. CK2 though is missing much of the required user interface to make the game as basically what is a courtier fun, so there would eb much job for Paradox to build this game, but if they do they have at least one customer here.
EDIT: Note that I personally think such a game would be totally awesome. Where you play the head of an unleaded noble family in the court of a medieval republic. Investing in trade to get richer, assassinating and bribing other nobles to get your son elected as Doge. CK2 though is missing much of the required user interface to make the game as basically what is a courtier fun, so there would eb much job for Paradox to build this game, but if they do they have at least one customer here.
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That's not a real solution because it didn't happen enough in real life to justify making it the core success strategy. While merchant republics were dominated by an exclusive group of noble families, their were rules in place to prevent one family from becoming a ruling dynasty. And I hope I don't have to explain to you why the idea of a dynastic bishopric (ie ruled by people supposed to be unwed and celibate) is patently ridiculous.
Make it possible to play as barons for one. For that matter, make it possible to play as a landless family/character. Then, add some intrigue options to become the political leader of the republic. For merchant families, add their gold and assets to their game score instead of piety.
I'm not going to lie, this sounds incredibly boring since you'd only be able to do anything when the MTTH says so.
Maybe add a 'Party' system? (Now that the term 'Faction' is taken...)
Like in the "pars guelfa" vs. "pars gebellina" war between the Guelphs and the Ghibellines. It is totally medieval.
You'd have ideological/theological confrontations, lots of intrigue events, getting support from the great rulers abroad, gathering powerful supporters, help friends in need, and the possibility to betray and switch sides (at a huge cost)...
... and getting money. Loads of it to fund your plans. Through trade (for the Republics), through indulgences and donations for the Church.
Your goal would be to nominate a successor from your 'Party'. If you manage to have him elected once you're dead, you can go on.
You'd lose if your 'party' gets landless.
That said, I think Theocracies and Republics were much too stable at the time (in terms of territorial expansion) to be interesting to play, even in a sort-of-historical setting.
Like in the "pars guelfa" vs. "pars gebellina" war between the Guelphs and the Ghibellines. It is totally medieval.
You'd have ideological/theological confrontations, lots of intrigue events, getting support from the great rulers abroad, gathering powerful supporters, help friends in need, and the possibility to betray and switch sides (at a huge cost)...
... and getting money. Loads of it to fund your plans. Through trade (for the Republics), through indulgences and donations for the Church.
Your goal would be to nominate a successor from your 'Party'. If you manage to have him elected once you're dead, you can go on.
You'd lose if your 'party' gets landless.
That said, I think Theocracies and Republics were much too stable at the time (in terms of territorial expansion) to be interesting to play, even in a sort-of-historical setting.
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This.... could actually be very interesting. I'd be willing to try something like this.
Yeah, I am convinced it would be a fun game. Intrigues, politics, building trade companies, putting your dynasty in political offices. The question is how much of the UI would be changed to make it work in the CK2 engine. So much will happen in the courts.