oil debate

[Spruce]

I believe it's time to set up a thread about oil...it seems that oil will be the "fuel" (ha ha) to keep the war effort running.

1) from other threads I learned that the places were oil was drilled at the start of HOI, were limited =

- Roemenia,
- Soviet Union,
- USA,
- Indonesia,
- ???? (please complete the list)

2) How will the setting up of new oil drilling facilities be handled (find oil and exploit)?

3) And most important, how will you get oil supplies? Can you get oil anyway (by means of third party traders (independents) at a higher cost... And can you stockpile oil/fuel reserves...
to prevent the crashing of a huge war effort...

If I played the Axis I would like to invest in new oil drilling facilities, good relations with third party traders and stock pile some good reserves of oil...

4) As we know, oil can be stocked and the trader inside us will try to speculate (if the situation permits it...).
Will there be a "supply/demand" graph/indicator showing when oil supplies have their biggest value?
Also possible for other resources???



Sorry in case if this thread is not new

 

[unmerged(9384)]

I think Venizwala (sp) was big on oil, and supplied the Canadian force and still countiue to. Also Alberta

 

[King]

Originally posted by Spruce
I believe it's time to set up a thread about oil...it seems that oil will be the "fuel" (ha ha) to keep the war effort running.

1) from other threads I learned that the places were oil was drilled at the start of HOI, were limited =

- Roemenia,
- Soviet Union,
- USA,
- Indonesia,
- ???? (please complete the list)

The Middle East of Course. Iraq and Persia were too major producers of oil.

Originally posted by Spruce

2) How will the setting up of new oil drilling facilities be handled (find oil and exploit)?

I am curious how many new oil fields came into to rpoduction during the period? As far as I know nothing major appeared till after the war.

Originally posted by Spruce

3) And most important, how will you get oil supplies? Can you get oil anyway (by means of third party traders (independents) at a higher cost... And can you stockpile oil/fuel reserves...
to prevent the crashing of a huge war effort...

If I played the Axis I would like to invest in new oil drilling facilities, good relations with third party traders and stock pile some good reserves of oil...

One source of German oil was (oddly enough) coal. German invested Billions into building plants to manufacture synthetic oil. By 1942 Germany produced 6 Million Tonnes of oil (mainly synthetic).

Originally posted by Spruce

4) As we know, oil can be stocked and the trader inside us will try to speculate (if the situation permits it...).
Will there be a "supply/demand" graph/indicator showing when oil supplies have their biggest value?
Also possible for other resources???

Well there is nothing that looks like that in the screenshot on trading. Also at the time the world market was in decline as countries signed bilateral agreements and some resorted to barter (it was a favourite of Germany). So I don't know how historical your idea is.

Originally posted by Spruce

Sorry in case if this thread is not new

I ain't seen any thread like this one, but your pun at the start of the thread deserves an appology.

 

[The Larch]

Venezuela (as Arnou tried to say ) and Persia (as King said) were also major producers of oil during the HoI timeframe. I'm not that sure about Iraq. Saudia Arabia also started producing oil somewhere back there.

 

[King]

Originally posted by The Larch
Venezuela (as Arnou tried to say ) and Persia (as King said) were also major producers of oil during the HoI timeframe. I'm not that sure about Iraq. Saudia Arabia also started producing oil somewhere back there.

Oil was discovered in Kirkuk (in Northern Iraq) in 1927, and a pipeline linking this to the Mediterranina was built in 1934. It did supply quite a bit of oil. Oil in Kuwaite and Basra was also being exploited in the 30's.

 

[unmerged(5415)]

Originally posted by Spruce
1) from other threads I learned that the places were oil was drilled at the start of HOI, were limited =

- Roemenia,
- Soviet Union,
- USA,
- Indonesia,
- ???? (please complete the list)

Apart from those that were already mentioned:

- Germany (near Hannover)
- Persia
- Iraq
- Arabia
- Mexico (after the nationalization of the oil industry and subsequent hostilization by the US, Mexico sold many cargoes in the late 1930s to Germany and Japan, and those pretty much saved the mexican economy)

Also, note that while oil was first discovered in Kuwait in 1938, its extraction did not start until 1946, though I can see how a human player can speed this process up a bit.

In addition, several countries (especially Germany and Japan) synthetized oil, though it never amounted to much to have an impact on the war effort.

Should be noted, though, that the USA produced as much oil as all the other territories put together (with exception of the USSR). i.e. when America joins the war, the oil problems of the western allies basically disappear.

Originally posted by Spruce
2) How will the setting up of new oil drilling facilities be handled (find oil and exploit)?

I am also interested in knowing the answer to this question, though it should be noted that soviet facilities were unlike those of the other major powers - and their refineries produced oil of extremely low quality that clogged the engines after a few months of useage.

Originally posted by Spruce
3) And most important, how will you get oil supplies? Can you get oil anyway (by means of third party traders (independents) at a higher cost... And can you stockpile oil/fuel reserves...
to prevent the crashing of a huge war effort...

Not necessarily «independents»... Texaco sold oil to Germany until quite late in the war; most american companies always kept themselves loyal to the US motto 'everything for a buck'.

Originally posted by Spruce
If I played the Axis I would like to invest in new oil drilling facilities, good relations with third party traders and stock pile some good reserves of oil...

Investment would have to be very limited for the Axis - Germany did what it could (thus the facilities at Hannover), Japan didn't get access to major oil reserves until after the start of the war, and Italy had very few reserves [mostly undiscovered] in Libya... you'll have to spend quite a lot of money amassing reserves (which the Axis did do), but most of them will probably be used up by 1944.

Originally posted by Spruce
4) As we know, oil can be stocked and the trader inside us will try to speculate (if the situation permits it...).
Will there be a "supply/demand" graph/indicator showing when oil supplies have their biggest value?

I'm against this suggestion, as it would hugely benefit the US player; in the real world, corporate interests keep the Federal Goverment at check during peacetime, but I suspect that if such a feature is implemented in this game, the american player can «crash» the market whenever he/she wishes to do so during the game...

Regards,
Keoland

 

[unmerged(3168)]

Have we all forgotten the very first screenshot? I'd add Lagos to that list. On the synthetic oil plants will any nation be able to do this with the appropriate tech. While we're on his subject Wido pointed out on another thread that the Italians tried to synthesise rubber will these be possible in HOI (tech permitting)?

 

[unmerged(9384)]

Were there off shore platforms during that period time or is that later

 

[King]

Originally posted by Kiith
Have we all forgotten the very first screenshot? I'd add Lagos to that list. On the synthetic oil plants will any nation be able to do this with the appropriate tech. While we're on his subject Wido pointed out on another thread that the Italians tried to synthesise rubber will these be possible in HOI (tech permitting)?

Well Germany had a sythetic rubber programme, as well. One of the problems Germany had during the war was that synthetic rubber wasn't as good as the real thing. So their tires tended to wearout faster.

 

[Vulture]

Oil was abundant in:

* USA: Texas & California: biggest supply in the world
* Lagos area (Lagos + surroundings)
* Parts of the USSR: abundant oil resources
* Indonesian archipel
* Parts of China have an adequate supply
* Parts of Australia & New Zealand
* Middle East of course

Of course there are more places were oil is found, but there are the most important methinks.

 

[MacGregor]

US--about 60% of world production during the time period
Venzuela and Mexico--significant producers
Canada--Minor producer; their oil fields were not heavily exploited during the war.
Persia and Iraq--moderate producers
Indonesia--dominated Far Eastern markets
USSR--essentially self sufficient
Arabian states--though the oil had been discovered, it had not been exploited during the time frame; minimal production
Romania--biggest producer in Europe, but paled in comparison to the Allied supplies
Germany and Japan--they are going to be hurting, just like IRL. Will have to rely on trade, conquest and, most of all, on synthetic production. If we're lucky, their quest for oil will drive their strategic decisions (Germans focus on Southern Russia, Japan on Indonesia). The Allies should have a much easier time, at least with this aspect of the game.

Rubber is important too, and in even shorter supply. The US rationing program was geared more toward saving rubber supplies than oil. Of course synthetic production should help here too (if it's in the game).

 

[Kitschum]

Originally posted by VultureGFF

* Lagos area (Lagos + surroundings)

As I think was pointed out in the other thread, oil wasn't discovered in Nigeria until the late 50s (1958 IIRC), well after HoI's end date.

Cheers,

 

[Petrarca]

Oil production in Texas and Oklahoma will supply the US and any allies without a problem.

The setting up of new drilling facilities takes a long time, and infrastructure even longer, esp. for the Middle East. You could try, but your oil would probably start flowing in the mid 40s (if start in 36) unless you were... the Texans!

Texas wildcatters, most experienced oilmen in the world, thank you very much, drilled 300 wells for Britain to bring that nation to self-suffiency in the beginning of the war. Not enough to supply overseas, but enough to keep the Isles heated. North Sea oil was unattainable with the current technology.

A counter-example, of nations without half the world's oil production, would be the Japanese occupation of the Dutch East Indies. Japanese invasion and inexperience caused wartime production to fall 40% from pre-war figures. Also note that scorched-earth tactics were attempted at Grozny, but German commandos reached the fields before the explosives were to be detonated.

 

[MacGregor]

Originally posted by Petrarca
Oil production in Texas and Oklahoma will supply the US and any allies without a problem.

In fact, Texas may be the most stategically important province in the game.

Hmmmm, I think as Germany I'll spend the pre war years wooing Mexico.

 

[unmerged(9384)]

Damn Texas, bunch of oil controling cowboys

 

[Petrarca]

Originally posted by Arnou
Damn Texas, bunch of oil controling cowboys

We used to control cattle and cotton, now we have the third-largest port in the nation, second-largest high-tech industry, the space program (thank you LBJ!), American energy markets, etc.

The oil production of Texas (and Louisiana and Oklahoma) will become vitally important once I make a HoI fantasia scenario- neutral Lone Star Republic out to expand economic hegemony ("Jump through the hoops for your oil!" "How high?"), naturally, the Byzantines after being Ataturk-ized, some variation of an Austrian federation, etc.

 

[unmerged(8840)]

Originally posted by Petrarca


A counter-example, of nations without half the world's oil production, would be the Japanese occupation of the Dutch East Indies. Japanese invasion and inexperience caused wartime production to fall 40% from pre-war figures.

Its worth noting that the fall was largely because the dutch blew up most of the facilities and wells and it didn't hurt that the US sank the ship bringing new drilling equipment (a code breaking triumph IIRC).

 

[unmerged(2695)]

Oil production.

In 1937 Germany was 70 pct self-sufficient in petroleum products, mainly through the production of crude oil from coal. (According to the USBS the crude oil this produced is of very high quality).

The problem with synthetiv petroleum production is that it has not been economically viable since the industry crashed in 1928 due to the increase in natural petroleum production. (The different trade-names for finished petroleum products in Continental Europe, such as benzine, diesel and solar are in fact brand names used to market German synthetic fuels from the 1890s onwards).

Attaining self-sufficiency in petroleum products (fuel, but particularly lubricants) was one of the major goals of the German Four-year plan. But for the war Germany woudl have attained self-sufficiency - at a staggering economic cost.

Once it controlled Rumania Germany did not really need the oil of the Caucasus and the Middle East in order to make war. It needed the oil in the long, not the short, term. The short term objective in 1942 was to deny the Russians the Caucasian oil and threaten the British in the Near East.

Germany only suffered fuel shortages from the summer of 1944, when it lost the Rumanian oil and the Allied bomber offensive strated crippling the transportation system and destroynig the oil plants. But by then it had already lost the war.

 

[Generalisimo]

Re: Oil production.

Originally posted by Hardu
In 1937 Germany was 70 pct self-sufficient in petroleum products, mainly through the production of crude oil from coal. (According to the USBS the crude oil this produced is of very high quality).

The problem with synthetiv petroleum production is that it has not been economically viable since the industry crashed in 1928 due to the increase in natural petroleum production. (The different trade-names for finished petroleum products in Continental Europe, such as benzine, diesel and solar are in fact brand names used to market German synthetic fuels from the 1890s onwards).

Attaining self-sufficiency in petroleum products (fuel, but particularly lubricants) was one of the major goals of the German Four-year plan. But for the war Germany woudl have attained self-sufficiency - at a staggering economic cost.

Once it controlled Rumania Germany did not really need the oil of the Caucasus and the Middle East in order to make war. It needed the oil in the long, not the short, term. The short term objective in 1942 was to deny the Russians the Caucasian oil and threaten the British in the Near East.

Germany only suffered fuel shortages from the summer of 1944, when it lost the Rumanian oil and the Allied bomber offensive strated crippling the transportation system and destroynig the oil plants. But by then it had already lost the war.

i totally agree with Hardu.
The germans started to have problems with oil when they loose Romania.
Also the US/British bombardments destroy almost every factory, so they started to cannot supply the demand of food, oil,...

 

[Petrarca]

Originally posted by husky65


Its worth noting that the fall was largely because the dutch blew up most of the facilities and wells and it didn't hurt that the US sank the ship bringing new drilling equipment (a code breaking triumph IIRC).

The subs sank the ship, but IIRC it was Japanese experience and not Dutch sabotage that caused the fall in production.