Oil and Logistics Mega-thread: Post all discussion here

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Evan05

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I hope their silence is a good hint, that they will do something with it in the future. The same was with the Polish leader being wrong. They've been silent and look what we've got. Not only correction of the error, but a whole DLC about Poland :).

Didn't they say they were changing up the supply system in the latest WWW?
 
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fabius

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I think Daniel mentioned it, but it could be just some balance, nothing big.
Could be. But medium to long term, I reckon they here this; especially if the noise about supply is similar after release.
 

Comrade110

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According to some peoples "logic" it is absolutely reasonable that tank division A, goes 100km to front, gets destroyed, consumes 5 Oil.

Tank division B goes from Paris to Nanking and consumes 5 Oil.

Can you please stop defending such a ridiculous system ? I understand that in-game we have to have some level of abstraction, but this is just idiotic.
 
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Denkt

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I defend the system because I think it work well from a strategic viewpoint. I don't care much about how realistic it is, in the end you have to use your imagination.
 
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Evan05

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I defend the system because I think it work well from a strategic viewpoint. I don't care much about how realistic it is, in the end you have to use your imagination.

It doesn't work from a strategic point of view. Units not requiring oil to move massively downplays the importance of oil as a resource.
 
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tommylotto

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It doesn't work from a strategic point of view. Units not requiring oil to move massively downplays the importance of oil as a resource.
It should work for Barbarossa, where both sides are going through tanks like potato chips, but it will make a mess of the rest of the war, particularly the Pacific.
 
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Evan05

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It should work for Barbarossa, where both sides are going through tanks like potato chips, but it will make a mess of the rest of the war, particularly the Pacific.

It will only work for that if the production penalties for an oil shortage (like the one Germany faced) is ultra-severe.

Regardless, both sides will not go through units like potato chips all the time. Initially as you should know, the Germans had astounding success on the Eastern Front and only got bogged down due to a combination of weather conditions, poor infrastructure, Soviet partisanship, and straining of gasoline supplies and supply lines. I can't confirm nor deny it, but I have heard before that at the coldest temperatures of the Eastern Front, the Germans would have to keep their trucks and mechanical units always on and running or the gasoline and oil inside would freeze which would be very heavily taxing on oil/gasoline.

Even if that isn't true, the Germans had to cover vast swathes of land both on land and in air. This would be massive uses of oil to help feed their war machine when moving into the Soviet Union. The issue with Hearts of Iron 4 is no units cost oil when moving, when in reality moving expends the most oil. Germany also having initial success on the Eastern Front (which should be simulated by the effects of the Great Officer Purge) means they won't be losing tanks nearly as much as the Soviets, so the Germans will not be using up anywhere near as much oil as the Soviets when in reality the Germans had to use more and more to keep covering all that land.

I'm very much scared that oil will not make-or-break militaries in HOI4 like it did in real life. They should make units cost very little oil up front and instead make units cost oil whenever moving provinces. In the event of an oil shortage, the unit will move at a significantly reduced rate or not at all.
 
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MrTsubodai

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I'm very much scared that oil will not make-or-break militaries in HOI4 like it did in real life. They should make units cost very little oil up front and instead make units cost oil whenever moving provinces. In the event of an oil shortage, the unit will move at a significantly reduced rate or not at all.

To redo the oil system like how you suggest would mean that they would have to completely redesign oil as a strategic resource in its availability on the map and what it means for production. Regardless as to whether or not their current system makes sense, they would have to completely remake the game to implement a fix like what you would suggest, ergo they won't do it. I could see Paradox publishing a band-aid fix in a patch that requires a surplus of oil (to varying degrees) to allow for more efficient/faster transportation (like having a surplus of +5 oil, +20 etc) and giving slight penalties for oil shortages. But the way it currently works, cost in fuel of the unit (its expected consumption throughout its lifespan) is calculated/allocated for at its production, which allows a simple, plausible, and easy to use system, so I understand why they did it (Supreme Ruler's resources were a massive fuster cluck that was very dysfunctional). Just imagine that the militaries of the world refuse to build equipment that they cannot expect to maintain or efficiently operate.
 
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JoseCastillo64

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I defend the system because I think it work well from a strategic viewpoint. I don't care much about how realistic it is, in the end you have to use your imagination.

Imagination? What is that?!?! NO! I demand that the game simulate everything precisely. I absolutely must be able to go to Poland to shut down Oskar Schindler's enamelworks factory, which should cause a small shortage of pots and pans on the front lines in Russia and reduce troop organization and morale. If I don't get that in the game, I'll have to mod it in. That's too much work, so I'll simply boycott the game! Stupid Paradox. They don't know what FUN is!

/s

Seriously though Denkt, I commend you for trying to reason with these hardliners for so long. You have more mental stamina than I do.

June 6th is almost here! See you in the game, friend!
 
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Kaszub

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Imagination? What is that?!?! NO! I demand that the game simulate everything precisely. I absolutely must be able to go to Poland to shut down Oskar Schindler's enamelworks factory, which should cause a small shortage of pots and pans on the front lines in Russia and reduce troop organization and morale. If I don't get that in the game, I'll have to mod it in. That's too much work, so I'll simply boycott the game! Stupid Paradox. They don't know what FUN is!

/s

Seriously though Denkt, I commend you for trying to reason with these hardliners for so long. You have more mental stamina than I do.

June 6th is almost here! See you in the game, friend!
I don't like to be called a hardliner, or calling all people that are more demanding of more accurate representation of WW II like that because firstly, I don't feel like I am, and secondly, how should I call you then? Casual? A simple man?

I think PDX said somewhere, that they want us to feel the period, not just make it 100% accurate and left us with it. They want us to deal with the problems and make hard decisions which matter. Well, for me, the fuel problem is one of them, and it is not in the game.
 
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Gamer_1745

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I hope they unstickied it because they made a decision about implementing **something** in the future and not "hope they forget it"
Unsticking it is interesting. Unless it naturally stays near the top it will just mean new threads popping up when people new find out about this as the get the game. I think this will be a bigger topic once the game is released as more people find out about it. Not all likely HOI IV players are forum regulars for a game not yet released.

I believe the developers are interested to hear from the general HOI IV player once they have played the game. A game needs to meet the expectations of the players. A bunch of players wont naturally question the new system as they don't normally think of logistics & just want to play the game & win battles. How big & demanding will be the 'advanced' players who will see it missing?
 
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Axe99

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It's an interesting question. I think it's a good idea to maybe let the topic slide until launch, and then see what new/returning (who haven't been on the forums for a while, but grab HoI4 and drop in to leave their thoughts) people say. Not that I'm sure a few of us won't have thoughts as well. I'm looking forward to actually getting my hands on it and being able to get a feel for how it works in practice.
 
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