Oh no, espionage is coming! :(

[Alucardvincent]

I was about to prebuy after seeing a cool YT promo for nemesis, I was about to prebuy until I saw the “espionage” thing; sadly I read it will come with the new patch anyway

Even when sounds funs at first and with good ideas, in my experience in other strat games for me ends very annoying.

The AI constantly trying to spy you, and even if you have some defense mechanics, usually they are limited are you are not 100% safe, so determined AI is constantly bothering you with no reason you with irritating stuff like magically spam a big and powerful “rebel army” in the middle of your empire, I stopped playing Civ V6 for that, I hope they will not implement such stuff here.

Even when they may have some fun interesting stuff, in other games for me usually the annoyances make the game much worse

 

[DanielPrates]

Maybe there could be some civic or perk called "extreme isolationist" or something, that gives you a super boost to espio defense while at the same time a giant malus to spy offense. It would allow many players to simply skip it alltogether.

 

[Nitros14]

If the AI didn't use it, it would be pointless.

I like it, if you feel too safe the game gets boring.

 

[Alucardvincent]

Maybe there could be some civic or perk called "extreme isolationist" or something, that gives you a super boost to espio defense while at the same time a giant malus to spy offense. It would allow many players to simply skip it alltogether.

Or something i was thinking, Paradox and Stellaris in particular gives you a lot of game config, options. I hope they consider making this espionage thing optional.

 

[Bonkster]

Maybe there could be some civic or perk called "extreme isolationist" or something, that gives you a super boost to espio defense while at the same time a giant malus to spy offense. It would allow many players to simply skip it alltogether.

it needs a more poetic name...maybe something like....Inward Perfection?

 

[DanielPrates]

it needs a more poetic name...maybe something like....Inward Perfection?

Or splendid nonchalantness.

 

[sillyrobot]

If the AI didn't use it, it would be pointless.

I like it, if you feel too safe the game gets boring.

As presented, espionage doesn't offer threat; merely nuisance. Depending on how the AI has been designed to use it, it could get old, fast.

 

[Mastikator]

I'm sure someone will come up with a mod that removes the hostile operations. Espionage would still be strong if it was only about information.

Because knowing is half the battle. The other half is orbital bombardment

 

[A2ch0n]

I think actually there aren't enough hostile operations...Since the pre release nerf, espionage doesn't feel as powerful as it should be. Especially the loss of bandwith is a heavy hit. So i really hope for a buff here in the future with much more operations. Actually my biggest concern is that a single operation doesn't have enough impact and my target can react to prevent the worst. But we will see.

 

[Colonizor48]

Yeah espionage seems like it can actually turn the tide of a game. You could steal tech from an overwhelming empire and catch up while inciting rebelions to destract them if you play your cards right. Seriouslly though i wsih there was an arm rebel movements. Similar to arm privateers but it caused an uprising that could be supported by your empire. The bigger the empire the more space the rebelion would control. This could be used to devistate large empires. And even cause an uprising with multiple different rebal groups. you could choose to just support your ethics or other ethics as well. Ethics attraction makes it more severe. Planets without many armies more likely to suceed. Armies can quash rebelions however. The option to boost factions would also be nice. For example trying to make an empire pacifist and more xenophobic to make them not get involved with your affairs.

 

[Borgratz]

we are talking about a new Stellaris feature here, so chances are the AI will have no idea how to use it for a while

See also: the galactic community, the new economy system, the new hyperlane system and so on.

 

[TrotBot]

You could steal tech from an overwhelming empire and catch up

no you can't. if an empire is too far ahead of you in tech, it's beyond your understanding and you can't steal the tech from them. you can only steal tech from empires a little ahead of you, but not enough for their science to be way over your head.

 

[Gilbert95]

Because knowing is half the battle. The other half is orbital bombardment

I must have missed that episode of the classic 80s toy commercial cartoon...

 

[A2ch0n]

no you can't. if an empire is too far ahead of you in tech, it's beyond your understanding and you can't steal the tech from them. you can only steal tech from empires a little ahead of you, but not enough for their science to be way over your head.

Don't know where you've read that. As far i know, it's only quite hard and with a high chance to get caught, but it is possible (exept FE's)

 

[Databug]

Don't know where you've read that. As far i know, it's only quite hard and with a high chance to get caught, but it is possible (exept FE's)

One of the dev diaries said that in order to steal a tech, you need to meet all the prerequisites for that tech first. For instance, you can't steal the tech for a science nexus without already having mega-engineering. Steal tech only becomes completely impossible if the target empire has the enigmatic engineering perk.

 

[Meneye]

I was about to prebuy after seeing a cool YT promo for nemesis, I was about to prebuy until I saw the “espionage” thing; sadly I read it will come with the new patch anyway

It wasn't made very clear just how much of the espionage system is included in the free patch. But from reading the patch notes, it looks like the actual operations are locked behind the dlc, with only intel being in the update. So I guess if you really hate espionage enough, you can choose not to buy the dlc.

 

[Azhcristokos]

Don't know where you've read that. As far i know, it's only quite hard and with a high chance to get caught, but it is possible (exept FE's)

I was mistaken too, so I went and found what the devs said in the relevant diary.

Steal Technology (Subterfuge, Technology) is another one that has created a stir on the forums. Through a variety of means, your agents will attempt to gain access to the research databases of the target. Depending on how things go, several outcomes could occur - they might be able to get some hints as to how a technology works (granting it as a research option and providing some progress), they may be able to leave a backdoor (increasing your empire’s research speed for a time), or if things get messy, they could just destroy whatever research they can (inflicting penalties on the target). Your operatives can only take research that your empire has the hope of understanding, so you must meet all appropriate prerequisites.

 

[Jamaican Castle]

One of the dev diaries said that in order to steal a tech, you need to meet all the prerequisites for that tech first. For instance, you can't steal the tech for a science nexus without already having mega-engineering. Steal tech only becomes completely impossible if the target empire has the enigmatic engineering perk.

But, you don't stop having a technology just because you get later versions of it.

For example if I have T5 lasers and you have T2 lasers, you could only steal T3s, but you're not prevented from stealing T3s by my having later techs.

Even so, the rate of technology stealing, and the fact that it may only give you a bonus and not the whole technology (and the spy-related technologies themselves) mean that while spying on an overwhelming foe might help narrow the gap a little faster than would otherwise be the case, it won't catch you up on its own.

 

[Colonizor48]

But, you don't stop having a technology just because you get later versions of it.

For example if I have T5 lasers and you have T2 lasers, you could only steal T3s, but you're not prevented from stealing T3s by my having later techs.

Even so, the rate of technology stealing, and the fact that it may only give you a bonus and not the whole technology (and the spy-related technologies themselves) mean that while spying on an overwhelming foe might help narrow the gap a little faster than would otherwise be the case, it won't catch you up on its own.

Honestly you should be able to steal any tech from another empire they have. With lower chances for things farther down the tech tree relitive to where you are. And based on other things. For example materialists would have a lower chance to steal psionic theory. And also the ability for late game empires to do espionage against FEs and unlock there crap for yourself. But this will cause them to awaken and research better versions of there ships and buildings that are encrypted and much much harder to steal. And large empires should get penalties to encryption. Basicly the higher the empire sprawl the easier it is to steal stuff from you. The lower their empire sprawl the harder it is to steal stuff from them. And empires with small empire sprawl should get bonuses to counter espionage and espionage. This would not be affected by beurocrats. I can someone make this a mod for 3.0 as soon as it comes out as it is probably too late in development to add something like this.

 

[sillyrobot]

Honestly you should be able to steal any tech from another empire they have. With lower chances for things farther down the tech tree relitive to where you are. And based on other things. For example materialists would have a lower chance to steal psionic theory. And also the ability for late game empires to do espionage against FEs and unlock there crap for yourself. But this will cause them to awaken and research better versions of there ships and buildings that are encrypted and much much harder to steal. And large empires should get penalties to encryption. Basicly the higher the empire sprawl the easier it is to steal stuff from you. The lower their empire sprawl the harder it is to steal stuff from them. And empires with small empire sprawl should get bonuses to counter espionage and espionage. This would not be affected by beurocrats. I can someone make this a mod for 3.0 as soon as it comes out as it is probably too late in development to add something like this.

18th century Switzerland simply cannot comprehend a quartz watch sufficiently to attempt to steal the tech. They might be able to identify that little round thing produces electricity like a battery but it could not be duplicated in that size. Literally every other part is akin to magic. Heck, the same can probably be said of the 1930s. The transistor hadn't been invented yet. They would have no way of identifying, basically anything other than the battery and that it uses a small crystal somehow.