Offmap Artillery?!!??

[Tank Girl]

One of the things in this game I find extremly boring... No matter if 4vs4 or 10vs10.

Anybody else having issues with Offmap arty?

I wouldnt even mind if there would be some kind of warning. But its just invisible bombs that kill virtually everything in the area. Arty should be deadly, but I get the impression its just too easy to use and there is no way to counter.
Maps design allows Forward Observers to be invisible all the time without problem.

At least there should be visibile shells from outside of the map like with regular artillery. Same rules for everything in the same game I d say...

While I appreciate the idea of Offmap arty, I just get the impression that it is far too good at the moment.

 

[Herrmaus3r]

Played 1v1 ranked vs a 101st player that literally bought 4 offmap vehicles yesterday. Needless to say it was not fun. I think they need a price hike to be honest, units like these are hard to balance, but I think removing their prevalence wouldn't hurt either.

 

[Vyllis]

Same rules for everything in the same game I d say...

Infantry HMG would love to have this applied to them :'(.

 

[Miskyavine]

Id like an infantry OP like a radio squad or something would be cool

 

[Royalfork]

Well they're there for battle groups that are weak in the artillery tabs and rely on off maps to get that support. Which is why the airborne divs get the super heavy artillery and mechanized forces only get 150mm-203mm guns.

I agree they're very strong but they really only punish people who choose to be static and bunch up in one area. But that's a player problem not a game problem.

The only ways I could think of MAYBE changing them:
-Give the heavy caliber guns longer call in times.
-A wait time between fire missions.
- Requiring spotter vehicles to have line of sight to their target.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

The only ways I could think of MAYBE changing them:
- Give the heavy caliber guns longer call in times.
- A wait time between fire missions.
- Requiring spotter vehicles to have line of sight to their target.

2 and 3 seem like sensible changes, but the issue with 1 is that you then risk heavy arty never hitting anything. You already have a ~30 second countdown timer on certain off-maps (depending on the barrage type you select), and if it were much higher then the risk-reward factor may end up being unbalanced.

 

[Herrmaus3r]

Well they're there for battle groups that are weak in the artillery tabs and rely on off maps to get that support. Which is why the airborne divs get the super heavy artillery and mechanized forces only get 150mm-203mm guns.

I agree they're very strong but they really only punish people who choose to be static and bunch up in one area. But that's a player problem not a game problem.

The only ways I could think of MAYBE changing them:
-Give the heavy caliber guns longer call in times.
-A wait time between fire missions.
- Requiring spotter vehicles to have line of sight to their target.

That can be a very big problem for static infantry divisions that are...static.

All jokes aside though, I know that the AB divs need the offmap, I just feel like being that it really can't be countered unless by a micro mistake, it makes for terrible gameplay and when a particular deck has the ability of calling 4,5 or even 6 offmap vehicles, that's a problem regardless of how many holes a division has.

In any case, I would much prefer out of your 3 suggestions the LOS one, that way at least you know one is on the field, and you have someway of reacting/countering that kind of play.

 

[Claremont Waltz]

They should reroll some recon planes into observers for heavy off map (203mm and above). That would add realism and counterplay, and would give players a reason to take the lighter off map variants.

 

[fufubear]

They should reroll some recon planes into observers for heavy off map (203mm and above). That would add realism and counterplay, and would give players a reason to take the lighter off map variants.

This would be perfect. Heavy Off map should be exclusive to recon planes while the observer vehicles get the lighter Off map. This way countering the heavy batteries is easier and gives a reason to take the slow recon planes outside of an airborne division.

 

[Rojan]

This would be perfect. Heavy Off map should be exclusive to recon planes while the observer vehicles get the lighter Off map. This way countering the heavy batteries is easier and gives a reason to take the slow recon planes outside of an airborne division.

It shouldn't be exclusive to recon planes. I do however think that Allies should get some flavor regarding the off-map barrages. Give their observer planes that trait. Overall though I am fairly certain a price tweak would fix barrages. It is generally what Eugen balances with anyways.

 

[Herrmaus3r]

This would be perfect. Heavy Off map should be exclusive to recon planes while the observer vehicles get the lighter Off map. This way countering the heavy batteries is easier and gives a reason to take the slow recon planes outside of an airborne division.

Please no, I'd much rather not give people an even better tool to call off map with, with it being able to spot for itself.

 

[Lith]

I think it should require line of sight to drop the arty. Parking the spotter near the frontline behind a forest and dropping barrages is risk free and rewarding. If it required los the spotter would be forced to expose itself and be vulnerable and would actually give the enemy (if hes good enough to use recon) a chance to realize that hes about to get bombed.

As it is now you can just drive the spotter near the front park it behind hedges or whatever and wait for targets and barrage something without any warning whatsoever

 

[Rojan]

I think it should require line of sight to drop the arty. Parking the spotter near the frontline behind a forest and dropping barrages is risk free and rewarding. If it required los the spotter would be forced to expose itself and be vulnerable and would actually give the enemy (if hes good enough to use recon) a chance to realize that hes about to get bombed.

As it is now you can just drive the spotter near the front park it behind hedges or whatever and wait for targets and barrage something without any warning whatsoever

I believe the way it is now is to abstract radio communications between recon and the actual unit that calls in the barrages. Requiring LOS would neuter the off-map barrages since they are all vehicles that can't really hide in anything.

 

[Lith]

I believe the way it is now is to abstract radio communications between recon and the actual unit that calls in the barrages. Requiring LOS would neuter the off-map barrages since they are all vehicles that can't really hide in anything.

The whole point of artillery observers is to direct artillery fire. If you want to go full realism then the spotter should have los for the whole duration of the barage and each shot should be morea accurate as it gets directed. Artillery spotters outrange every unit (except maybe arty idk) by far. The problem from where im standing is that you can use the spotters pretty much risk free of loosing them meaning that theyre too cost effective.
Regular arty atleast gets tracers so you can counter barrage or airstrikethem while the spotter remains untouchable if you just stick it behind a hedge and keep it behind the front which is easily doable because they have insane range. Not to mention that they can simply drop arty wherever without even any friendly unit looking at the areaare where its landing so your realism argument in that regard is quite invalid

 

[Rojan]

The whole point of artillery observers is to direct artillery fire. If you want to go full realism then the spotter should have los for the whole duration of the barage and each shot should be morea accurate as it gets directed. Artillery spotters outrange every unit (except maybe arty idk) by far. The problem from where im standing is that you can use the spotters pretty much risk free of loosing them meaning that theyre too cost effective.
Regular arty atleast gets tracers so you can counter barrage or airstrikethem while the spotter remains untouchable if you just stick it behind a hedge and keep it behind the front which is easily doable because they have insane range. Not to mention that they can simply drop arty wherever without even any friendly unit looking at the areaare where its landing so your realism argument in that regard is quite invalid

I'm not making an argument. I am providing an explanation for why the unit is the way it is. I agree that they are too cost-effective. They should be made more expensive, that is how you fix units that are too cost-effective.

 

[Lith]

I'm not making an argument. I am providing an explanation for why the unit is the way it is. I agree that they are too cost-effective. They should be made more expensive, that is how you fix units that are too cost-effective.

Spotters already have a massive range advantage for survivability. Making them require los woudlnt neuter them. Sure they would be more vulnerable and harder to use but thats the whole point because now its a risk free no skill required ez kills unit

 

[Rojan]

Spotters already have a massive range advantage for survivability. Making them require los woudlnt neuter them. Sure they would be more vulnerable and harder to use but thats the whole point because now its a risk free no skill required ez kills unit

I'll never understand why people think that artillery needs to take 'skill'. It is an inherently flawed argument. They will always be point and click. Do you want a little FPS minigame that pops up when you fire artillery to guide the round in? There are far too many maps in this game that are line of sight nightmares with hedgerows. Just up the price accordingly and call it a day.

 

[Max_Damage]

Leave off maps be. HAve been enjoying them so much. And OFFmaps already require LOS of any of your unit. There s a thing called radio.

 

[Karlburg]

I'll never understand why people think that artillery needs to take 'skill'. It is an inherently flawed argument. They will always be point and click. Do you want a little FPS minigame that pops up when you fire artillery to guide the round in? There are far too many maps in this game that are line of sight nightmares with hedgerows. Just up the price accordingly and call it a day.

I don't think there's a problem with the artillery mechanics so much as a thing that's just point-and-click shouldn't be a game-defining unit the way offmaps are right now.

 

[local-festival]

I have no problems with offmap arty at all. In fact I think that the heavy mortars are way more poisonous to gameplay than all offmap art combined.