Official MDS2DH Thread

[unmerged(433515)]

IC is 85% arms industry, which certain nations don't have. Such as Canada, they rely mostly of foreign arms like the Leopard 2 MBT from Germany. And other arms from places like the US. I think some nations should have events where they buy military equipment in order to create new divisions. Same with in time of war just sped up, kind of like the purchase outdated equipment event in DH Full expect for a wider range of units, such as infantry, armor, and even naval. If we based it off GDP the USA would be nearly unstoppable, same with China.

 

[unmerged(271387)]

As the Sauds,i captured Jordan.Problem is Kuwait is in NATO,america won't accept me even though i have +200 relations with them and the other states in arabian peninsula are guranteed by them.What should i do?I want to build up my army to capture Israel.After that everything will be fine i think(i've built some IC and divisions)

 

[unmerged(297954)]

It seems a little high to me as well. Canada buys nearly all its military hardware from the USA.

That being said, Canada has decent manufacturing that could easily be converted into war footing so that should be taken into account
There are some arms branch plants in Ontario (General Dynamics), plus a decent aerospace industry with Bombardier in Quebec and Bristol out in Winnipeg (although not what it once was). There is also decent shipbuilding in the Maritimes and out in B.C. With American help, which would be the case in a war, Canada could be pumping out tanks and fighter planes quite easily.

I'm not denying that Canada has industry. But again, imagine China in this same geared economy of total war. You think their production would only be x2.5 that of Canada?

 

[CylonAndrew]

canada has a higher GDP than Russia...

 

[unmerged(297954)]

canada has a higher GDP than Russia...

Because of tank and fighter jets production? Or because of people in offices and food service industries?

 

[Limith]

Because of tank and fighter jets production? Or because of people in offices and food service industries?

I agree. GDP is not a reliable figure to represent IC at all.

 

[whatguts]

Because of tank and fighter jets production? Or because of people in offices and food service industries?

because of tank and fighter jets production, and not to mention canada's illegal sale of nuclear warheads

 

[d4rk]

is there a stable version on DH map ??

 

[Wilksjohnson]

Worry not, we're only making it compatible with the DH map ATM. What the future holds, we'll see in the future.

This. Once the conversion is done, then we can start adding content.

Is this playable on DH map now?

No. Although there is a dev release floating around here somewhere.

Oh yeah I would like to point out that my other argument for sticking with the original 2003 scenario rather than a proposed 2007, 2012 or I think a 2015 is we already have the events figured out from then, not to mention that it would just be a matter of adding on current events or altering ww3 after the mod is fully ported over to DH. Less work=closer we get a DH MDS scenario rather than dicking around with new scenarios not to mention it fulfills the original objectives of these fine moders in this thread!

Just to clarify since I see this brought up a lot, we are not yet adding new scenarios until this conversion is finished. Once the conversion is finished, then we can focus on new scenarios. I myself would really like to see something similar to Xie's 2007/08 scenario where everything is much worse than in our timeline.

still the same problem all ministers in ministers_sia.csv and ministers_taj.csv share the same ID - 82001 - 82010

Thanks to CocoBZ, this has been fixed for the next dev release. This means saves can now be loaded.

BURMA SNIP

Thanks for pointing this out. The new flags have been integrated.

It's probably best overall if one person takes control of the province IC issues, as he will get a "feel" for the subject as he goes along, will have a better overall understanding of it, and will cause less confusion in the end. Else we'll be here til doomsday arguing over whatnots?

Kretoxian, you seem to be doing this job so far (?), maybe you should be the guy to take full control and it can be your "baby" to finish??
.. the rest of us can then concentrate on getting whatever is left to do, done?

I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but it is just a suggestion.

What is outstanding to be done now?

I fully support Kretoxian handling the IC.(Less work for me to do. )

In all seriousness, I suppose I should clarify about what IC files will be used since there seems to be a lively discussion about it.

Kretoxian's files are going to be the one used. This is for one simple reason, his files are the only ones available atm.


@Kretoxian: Are you also modifying manpower and resources, or just IC?

On topic, any idea on when a playable version is released?

In 54687986165186547894163513518498768541313777981321564894 seconds.

Good work. It's nice to know how fast is this developing.
How this will handle nuclear warfare? The old MDS "I'm in trouble... let's nuke the enemy!" or maybe a new system?
Also, I can provide help (not with modding, but with research, as tester, or hell knows what else I can provide)

As of now, the old MDS system for nukes is still the one in place.

I-It's so close

Yes, I-It is.

Also, although I haven't done very much work recently, I have integrated some Generic Decisions and converted two events into decisions.

 

[unmerged(433515)]

But there is only 3,155,760,000 seconds in a century.
btw I got promoted , 25 posts FTW!!!

 

[Fernando Torres]

Don't know if it has been suggested before but what you can do is change the defense lobby slider to a defense budget slider which can only be moved via decisions (harder in democracies as the Parliament has to agree). Then play with MODIFIER_TOTAL_IC to determine how much GDP is affected to defense spendings.
F. e. USA has $ 15 billions = 1500 IC in game. And it has total_ic = 0.4 = 60 IC in game ($ 600 millions).
It's pretty straightforward system.

 

[unmerged(465178)]

IC is 85% arms industry, which certain nations dont have. Such as Canada, they rely mostly of foreign arms like the Leopard 2 MBT from Germany. And other arms from places like the US. I think some nations should have events where they buy military equipment and create new divisions. Same with in time of war just sped up, kind of like the purchase outdated equipment event in DH Full expect for a wider range of units, such as infantry, armor, and even naval.

+1

 

[Kretoxian]

If you check the GDP of the countries in question, you will see that if Brazil has 84 IC, Belgium should have 18 IC.

Brazil's economy is about the same size as Russia or France.

I'm not using GDP as a criterion, why? because that would make most of the game nations unplayable and with the majority of nations with 3 - 10 IC.

As i've said before i'm following the next process:
1. Find an economic activity map of the country whose ic i want to work with.
1a. If i can't find such map, i take a look at their economical situation and to their exports
2. Rework province.csv in order to add those resources
3. Add ic using a not very strict formula where you take the resources produced by a province, add them all up, divide the result of that sum by 2 (or 3, or 4 or the number you want in order to not have 50 ic in just province for instance).

I agree. GDP is not a reliable figure to represent IC at all.

This +1, maybe GDP was a nice scale for 1936 scenarios but certainly not for a 21st century one.

I fully support Kretoxian handling the IC.(Less work for me to do. )

In all seriousness, I suppose I should clarify about what IC files will be used since there seems to be a lively discussion about it.

Kretoxian's files are going to be the one used. This is for one simple reason, his files are the only ones available atm.


@Kretoxian: Are you also modifying manpower and resources, or just IC?

I can turn the "ic augmented" scenario in an independent one just for those people who don't agree with ic amounts to have the original scenario with the original ic amounts to play with.
And yes, i'm modyfing province.csv and adding resources to many countries like angola for instance.

 

[Killerrabbit]

While GDP has it's flaws, I can't imagine that it's more flawed than just some guy (you) deciding on a number in a completely non-scientific manner. Not to mention that your "distribution" leaves Europe with 50% of the worlds IC... which I find laughable.

I'm thinking of making my own distribution for a 2014 scenario. But not until the new E3 map is done methinks.

 

[Kretoxian]

^^ Until something better is found. I presuppose that each country would exploit, in a better or worse way, it's natural resources and that would generate ic. This is a game after all, playability matters.

It's funny that you make assertions like that of europe's holding 50% of the ic when i've just started and you've not seen the final result.

And i took the time to convert 2003 world's GDP into IC and these are the results:

USA: 1040
China: 570
Japan: 355
India: 266
Germany: 218
France: 154
Uk: 152
Italy: 143
Russia: 135
Brazil: 134
South Korea: 93
Canada: 92
Mexico: 90
Spain: 82
Indonesia: 66
Australia: 52
Turkey: 46
Iran: 45
Netherlands: 43
South Africa: 43
Thailand: 42
Taiwan: 40
Argentina: 39
Poland: 36
Philippines: 35
Pakistan: 31
Belgium: 29
Colombia: 26
Egypt: 26
Saudi Arabia: 24
Bangladesh : 23
Switzerland: 23
Sweden: 22
Austria: 22
Ukraine: 21
Malaysia: 21
Greece: 20
Hong Kong: 18 (it would be added to China i guess)
Vietnam: 18
Portugal: 18
Algeria: 16
Romania: 16
Czech Republic: 15
Denmark: 15
Chile: 15
Norway: 14
Finland: 13
Hungary: 13
Venezuela: 13
Peru: 13
Israel: 12
Ireland: 11
Morocco: 11
Nigeria: 11
Kazakhstan: 10
Singapore: 10
Belarus: 8
New Zealand: 7
Sri Lanka: 7
Burma: 7
Slovakia: 6
Uzbekistan: 6
Tunisia: 6
Syria: 5
Iraq: 5
Dominican Republic: 5
United Arab Emirates: 5
Sudan: 5
Bulgaria: 5
Ethiopia: 5
Guatemala: 4
Puerto Rico: 4 (it would be added to USA i guess)
Ghana: 4
Ecuador: 4
Libya: 4
Croatia: 3
Nepal: 3
Slovenia: 3
Kuwait: 3
DR Congo: 3
Costa Rica: 3
Kenya: 3
Uganda: 3
El Salvador: 3
Lithuania: 2
Azerbaijan: 2
Cameroon: 2
Zimbabwe: 2
Uruguay: 2
Turkmenistan: 2
Cuba: 2
Serbia and Montenegro: 2
Paraguay: 2
Cote D'ivoire: 2
Jordan: 2
Tanzania: 2
Oman: 2
North Korea: 2
Bolivia: 2
Latvia: 2
Luxembourg: 2
Cambodia: 1
Lebanon: 1
Mozambique: 1
Afghanistan: 1
Honduras: 1
Panama: 1
Qatar: 1
Angola: 1
Senegal: 1
Guinea: 1
Yemen: 1
Estonia: 1
Botswana: 1
Georgia: 1
Albania: 1
Burkina Faso: 1
Kyrgyzstan: 1
Mauritius: 1
Nicaragua: 1
Armenia: 1
Namibia: 1
Madagascar: 1
Haiti: 1
Trinidad & Tobago: 1
Moldova: 1
Chad: 1
Macedonia: 1
Jamaica:1
the rest countries are below 1 ic

As you can see it's fair for some countries, but for the majority of others it's highly unfair. African armies would be disbanded in a pair of months due to the lack of ic to keep them, and Europe would look like a third world continent.

EDIT: I forgot, the source i took for GDP is this: http://www.theodora.com/wfb2003/rankings/gdp_2003_0.html

 

[Kretoxian]

As i'm busy with real life these days, i'm continuing my experiment, this time, D countries (there are not many of them)
-Denmark: 27/23
-Djibouti: 3/1
-Dominican Republic: 4/4
-Democratic People's Republic of Korea (AKA North Korea, Best Korea or "Our North Korean allies" according to Sarah Palin): 25/19

 

[Indefatigable]

I'm not denying that Canada has industry. But again, imagine China in this same geared economy of total war. You think their production would only be x2.5 that of Canada?

Hence why I agreed that it was too high

 

[hoi2geek]

I think you should update the pictures in the decisions a little bit. Looks more WWII-ish.

 

[unmerged(174159)]

Belgium should have 18 IC.

Fabrique Nationale is worth more.

 

[CocoBZ]

Wouldn't this whole discussion regarding IC be avoided by trying to convert the values found in the MDS2 province.csv for the new map? I'm not saying it would be easy, but it would cut down discussions.