Officers getting new traits

[nwinther]

I don't know wether this has been suggested before, but here goes.

In HOI1, you can promote your generals, making them able to command larger forces. How about assigning a new trait every time they get promotet (or maybe just a chance for attaining a new trait)? If possible, the trait would be determined from the fighting this person has been involved in, and succeeded in doing. For instance - in a given general has won a province with a fortress - he gets some unknown points as a fortress-buster. If he's been involved in leading armoured troops into battle - he gets points as panzer-leader and so on. Or the easy way - you randomly assigns a new trait to the person when promoted.

 

[unmerged(16031)]

Hmm. How about this:
Each general has few traits, all of those traits have a value between 0-100. Everytime he leads units in a combat the points for that trait will go up.

For example Rommel has a "panzer commander" trait, it starts in 10, thus he get's 10% of the full "panzer commander" bonus. He then leads panzer divisions in a battle, thus his get's a few more points for that trait, and the points for that trait raise to 12. Next time he leads a panzer units in a battle he get's 12% of the full "panzer commander" bonus...?

 

[nwinther]

Could'nt you do it this way then: Every officer has a table of every trait (invisible of course). Some traits they have from the start others are "sleeping". When a given commander is given an assignment and goes into battle - the contents of the battle is recorded into his table (fortress, panzers, mountainous terrain, winter, offensive) all elements having a given value relative to the consentration and duration of the elements and the battle, as well as the success. If the commander didn't secure the province, which held a, say, level 2 fortress the fortress-field in his "battle-score" is zero for this battle. If he succeeded, he get's 1 or 10% for each level of fortress he busted (like you said it). If he's leading a panzer-division, you can take the number of enemies killed minus the number of friendlies killed divided by the number of friendly divisions in the battle multiplied by the number of friendly tank-divisions involved divided by 100.
Mountainous terrain should function like the fortress-code, and offensive/defensive should be determined by wether you're attacking or defending.

When his score in a given field reaches 70%, it is shown in his info-box. Of course, even if he has 60% - he still gets the bonus from that. This way, you can emulate the real world, as when someone is reckognized as having a nack for something.

 

[unmerged(16031)]

I thought of that too, but:
1. It would take a gigantic load of computer resources
2. It doesn't work that way:
No commander could master all traits, no matter how much they fought. It's just not possible.

 

[Zuckergußgebäck]

I think that even if the commander desn´t secure the province, he should get a bonus, a smaller one though.

Just look how e learn how to play paradox games: We start up, fail and stats up again, and everytime we do this, we learn something more...

 

[unmerged(12303)]

I thought of that too, but:
1. It would take a gigantic load of computer resources

yea I would have to agree with you on that. Wouldnt want HOI2 to hang every time it saves due to the huge data like CK does.

Lets keep it simple..

F

 

[unmerged(17541)]

.

posted this in another thread - but it's better fits in here:

- leaders with more traits, more individual traits (strength and weaknesses) - don't think one nation should get the uber-leaders...-...GER seems to have better land leaders especially for tanks...-...US & UK should have better ones for naval and air - and so on...

EDIT: the skill difference also should be a little bit bigger: Rommel & Guderian (skill 5 = 25%) should be more then 10% better then Hintz & Kuntz (skill 3 = 15%)



...btw. I would really like to see traits like:

- butcher (5% faster movement, 20% higher casualties, 10% higher ORG, 3% dissent, withdraws later) - don't name the leaders just coming in mind to avoid a major discussion...

- humanist (10% lower casualities, -5% movement rate, +2% morale bonus, withdraws earlier)

- and so on...

.

 

[unmerged(13933)]

New traits would definitely be cool addition.

How about
infantry leader: +soft attack, +org.
ground attack specialist: +attack and defence on dive bomber units
air superiority proponent: +attack for fighters
skillful organizer: +org recovery and max org +speed
incompetent: -some stats might be random.

 

[loki_poki]

How about an officer training school, like west point. The player would pick what training(Traits) would be on the agenda.

You could assign your leaders to the school. Higher level leaders would take more time to learn the traits cause they´re so stuck in there ways.

This would take care of the need for a huge database monitering all the leaders.

The number of leaders you could train could be tied to IC production, or size or millitary.

This would be simple yet would allow player to mod there leaders to a certain degree. If on the other hand you would want the exp system where you have x amounts of exp for every trait, a school could also come in play where you could plant your leaders during peace time.

 

[unmerged(17541)]

How about an officer training school, like west point. The player would pick what training(Traits) would be on the agenda.

You could assign your leaders to the school. Higher level leaders would take more time to learn the traits cause they´re so stuck in there ways.

This would take care of the need for a huge database monitering all the leaders.

The number of leaders you could train could be tied to IC production, or size or millitary.

This would be simple yet would allow player to mod there leaders to a certain degree. If on the other hand you would want the exp system where you have x amounts of exp for every trait, a school could also come in play where you could plant your leaders during peace time.

don't agree on that...

...you shouldn't be able to create uber-leaders...

what I would like to see would be traits reflecting more the historic skills / traits and personality of the most important leaders of WWII:

...therefore I would suggest the following:


1. ability-skills:

all leaders get a set of basic ability skills (land, air or naval):

- armor
- infantry
- offensive
- defensive
- maneuvre (movement boni)
- logistic (allowed to operate longer cut off supplies without mali)
- commando (when commanding this type of units boni for movement / attacks against obstacles)
- trickster (surprise)

...for these basic skills every leader gets a start value from 0 to 5 and has a chance to increase these ability skills based on combat experience...


2. personality skills: only the historical most important WWII leaders can get 1 to 4 of these traits:

...they should reflect their historical personality giving special boni *and* mali

- butcher
- humanist
- cautious
- agressive
- overambitious
- brilliant tactician
- fragile health
- arrogant
- capricious
- calculable
- politician
- overrated
- underrated
- old guard

- and so on...


...personality skills can't be increased or gained - a leader has them or not...


.

 

[Grosshaus]

CK had personal traits, perhaps that system could be used as a base for this kind of thing?

 

[unmerged(17541)]

CK had personal traits, perhaps that system could be used as a base for this kind of thing?

don't know...-..never played CK...-...not my time period...


btw. Grosshaus...-...why are you moving to Graz ?

.

 

[GrimReaper]

2. personality skills: only the historical most important WWII leaders can get 1 to 4 of these traits:

...they should reflect their historical personality giving special boni *and* mali

- butcher
- humanist
- cautious
- agressive
- overambitious
- brilliant tactician
- fragile health
- arrogant
- capricious
- calculable
- politician
- overrated
- underrated
- old guard

- and so on...


...personality skills can't be increased or gained - a leader has them or not...

This sounds great.

I cant help thinking... should not a leaders fragile health get an increased value if he is in a province that gets nuked?

No, seriously. I think of when von Kluge arrived at the West Front in 1944, as Rommels new superior. At first, von Kluge did not believe Rommel when he explained the serious situation in Normandy. The next day he took a trip to the front, changed his opinion and apologized to Rommel.

Arrogance goes down from 4 to 1

 

[Grosshaus]

don't know...-..never played CK...-...not my time period...

All characters in CK had traits, they were added and removed with events. Events were triggered in numerous ways, for instance fighting heathens might make one zealous, or by choosing to trying to grab your neighbour's title you could become reckless while not choosing to you could become moderate. RPGish.

btw. Grosshaus...-...why are you moving to Graz ?

.

Exchange studies.

 

[unmerged(26642)]

all leaders get a set of basic ability skills (land, air or naval):

- armor
- infantry
- offensive
- defensive
- maneuvre (movement boni)
- logistic (allowed to operate longer cut off supplies without mali)
- commando (when commanding this type of units boni for movement / attacks against obstacles)
- trickster (surprise)

...for these basic skills every leader gets a start value from 0 to 5 and has a chance to increase these ability skills based on combat experience...


2. personality skills: only the historical most important WWII leaders can get 1 to 4 of these traits:

...they should reflect their historical personality giving special boni *and* mali

- butcher
- humanist
- cautious
- agressive
- overambitious
- brilliant tactician
- fragile health
- arrogant
- capricious
- calculable
- politician
- overrated
- underrated
- old guard

- and so on...


...personality skills can't be increased or gained - a leader has them or not...


.

Sounds great, but a lot of work for those 1000s of generals we already have in HOI 1. And lot of stuff for discussions ("overrated " for example, will be very interesting :rofl: )

 

[unmerged(17541)]

Sounds great, but a lot of work for those 1000s of generals we already have in HOI 1. And lot of stuff for discussions ("overrated " for example, will be very interesting :rofl: )

think you should make a difference between "normal" leaders maybe with historical names: they will only have the basic traits

and a few "important" leaders with more individual traits as add on...

.

 

[Grosshaus]

think you should make a difference between "normal" leaders maybe with historical names: they will only have the basic traits

and a few "important" leaders with more individual traits as add on...

.

Then try telling Poles why their leaders weren't classified as important

 

[unmerged(17541)]

Then try telling Poles why their leaders weren't classified as important

...hmmm...-...have you known the name of one polish leader before playing HOI ?

...me not...-...but I'm no historican...

but if there is one...-...he could get some of the personality traits...


...what I meant is that not all the thousands of leaders should get them...-...only the historical most important / best known / whatever...

...to reduce the work needed for this suggestion...

...and it would give much flavour to HOI2 if leaders like Montgomery, Guderian, Rommel, Manstein, Zhukov, Nimitz...


.

 

[unmerged(26642)]

...hmmm...-...have you known the name of one polish leader before playing HOI ?

...me not...-...but I'm no historican...

but if there is one...-...he could get some of the personality traits...
...what I meant is that not all the thousands of leaders should get them...-...only the historical most important / best known / whatever...

...to reduce the work needed for this suggestion...

...and it would give much flavour to HOI2 if leaders like Montgomery, Guderian, Rommel, Manstein, Zhukov, Nimitz...
.

Please, please, we need more historical leaders for every country. It is only half the fun to beat nonames. Better is to beat enemy heroes with nobodies :rofl:
BTW, before HOI I have known only 1 Polish leader (Marshal Rydz-Smigly or so...)

 

[GrimReaper]

BTW, before HOI I have known only 1 Polish leader (Marshal Rydz-Smigly or so...)

Maybe you should get out more