Offer vassalization - Remove Alliance requirement

[Nerga]

If you have a vassal they are essentially part of your country. A duke or count is a vassal of a king for instance. If a King declares war on someone his dukes and counts also go to war. If you could have vassals but not be allied with them so they don't go to war it is silly because that means there is territory that is part of your empire that the enemy is unable to attack and sack. If you are France and Orleans is your vassal, why would they not go to war with Burgundy if you do? They are giving you troops and money (vassals increase force limit and income) so they are fair game for the enemy as far as I am concerned. If anything being able to break alliances or not call them into wars is the gamey messed up part.

As others have said, I think the real issue though, is that royal marriages are a requirement. That should be changed to SoI I think.

 

[Chronicler]

1. Why does it matter for vassals to have loads of money or not? I don't think it even matters if they go bankrupt (which usually only happens to the 1 or 2-PMs).

2. You mean that page in the ledger that lists the allies? I can't imagine why you'd be visiting that often. Or you mean the war declaration pop-ups? Then in which case, you can turn those off (I did, except for declarations on me).

3. Tough luck. Nobody asked you to vassal 50 minors and not wanting to use all of them in a war. Realistically, vassals should all be at war with your enemies.

I did complain about diplomats before, but that's about keeping up relationships with many countries and vassals at once as a large nation. But to save a diplomat for this? *rolls eyes*

1. Built up vassals are better vassals?

2. Well, I haven't really explored, but to my knowledge it's the only page that lists what CBs I currently have etc.

3. Well, the SOI kind of requires it, since it costs so much prestige in the end it's hard not to vassalize not to lose the extra SOI to some dumb AI.

 

[Arakhor]

Built-up vassals are better vassals, which is why I would never do anything as cheesy as having 50 OPM vassals when I could easily well have five 10-province vassals who would actually be useful to my war efforts, rather than just cheesing my SoI bonus.

 

[Chronicler]

Built-up vassals are better vassals, which is why I would never do anything as cheesy as having 50 OPM vassals when I could easily well have five 10-province vassals who would actually be useful to my war efforts, rather than just cheesing my SoI bonus.

How is building a good SOI gamey when it's the whole point of it lol? =P

 

[chals]

how old are you anyway Chronicler?

 

[Ruanek]

How is building a good SOI gamey when it's the whole point of it lol? =P

The point of SoI is not to get 50 OPM or TPM vassals to get the max bonuses.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

Because planning matters? You are allowed x number of alliances, not counting vassals/junior partners. It is quite easy to plan who to ally with that will allow you to acquire the vassals you want over the long haul. If you decide you have to ally the top x powers in the world to survive then you won't be getting any vassals diplomatically, deal with it. If you don't want all your vassals to join a war then don't use the universal cta button. Oh no, you'll only be able to use pause/multi-DoW cheese on 4 nations at once, qq.

My reasoning wasn't that I don't want limits. Rather, I typically impose severe limits on myself to keep the game fun for a longer period of time. However, this is an instance where I don't see a logical reason behind the limits harcoded into the game. Large scale, mutually binding strategic alliances should be considered separately from diplomatic efforts trying to incorporate weaker, vulnerable states into your own as vassals.

EDIT: In this last part, I'm referring to breaking alliances with vassals.

And I don't think I even brought up the issue of not wanting to ally all my vassals. I am perfectly capable of using spare diplomats to break alliances, and I don't view it as that big of a deal, though again, I think it makes more sense to separate vassal relationships from generic alliance relationships.

 

[brxbrx]

I'm pretty sure you can end the alliance with a vassal and keep them your vassal afterwards.

 

[Chronicler]

The point of SoI is not to get 50 OPM or TPM vassals to get the max bonuses.

So what is the point?

 

[Chronicler]

I'm pretty sure you can end the alliance with a vassal and keep them your vassal afterwards.

Yes, as stated many times here. It costs me 1 diplomat to create the alliance, and a second to break it.

 

[Chronicler]

how old are you anyway Chronicler?

Can't see how it is relevant to the topic.

 

[Atlanteax]

So what is the point?

Point of SoIs are to discourage AI from guarantee-ing nations in your SoI ... and also to give you a guarantee without mandating that you must answer CtA (you can ignore if a guaranteed nation is attack and not suffer prestige loss).

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

1. Built up vassals are better vassals?

And you know OPM vassals don't take long to build up. Or that even when built up, they still suck.

2. Well, I haven't really explored, but to my knowledge it's the only page that lists what CBs I currently have etc.

So the page about CB's get clogged up because you have alliances with vassals? The only circumstance that can happen is if your allies are at war with your vassals. And... you do know you can sort the CB's right?

3. Well, the SOI kind of requires it, since it costs so much prestige in the end it's hard not to vassalize not to lose the extra SOI to some dumb AI.

I want to own every province in the game, but there's this annoyance of the A.I. refusing to sell me all their provinces with 0 gold.

 

[King Nothing]

So what is the point?

So you really don't have a clue what this game is about? I thought you were just joking before but it seems you are serious..

 

[CyberEagle]

So what is the point?

Giving you a way to simulate what your nation considers, y'know, its Sphere of Influence?

Can't see how it is relevant to the topic.

You do know that most people will read that as "I'm young and don't want to prove the people that consider me childish righ", yeah?

 

[Arakhor]

He is right though - his age is irrelevant to the topic. It might be very relevant to his behaviour, but hardly to this thread.

 

[Chronicler]

Point of SoIs are to discourage AI from guarantee-ing nations in your SoI ... and also to give you a guarantee without mandating that you must answer CtA (you can ignore if a guaranteed nation is attack and not suffer prestige loss).

So the bonuses it gives is just by accident? >_>

 

[Chronicler]

So you really don't have a clue what this game is about? I thought you were just joking before but it seems you are serious..

Did I ask what the game was about? No I didn't.

 

[unmerged(204522)]

The point of SoI is not to get 50 OPM or TPM vassals to get the max bonuses.

how else is a medium sized HRE country supposed to emulate the achievements of the Habsburgs?

 

[Arakhor]

how else is a medium sized HRE country supposed to emulate the achievements of the Habsburgs?

Royal marriages and personal unions. How else?