I noticde that Offer of Vassalization never work. Did I make something wrong wrong ?
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Not at all ... but it takes alot for the AI to accept such offers.If you do not hold one of the liege titles in the area the potential victim ... ehh .. vassal, I believe they will be most unlikely to accept.
It also requires a good relationship value and good diplomacy. Often i find that they eventually offer it themselves if they are part of my sphere of influence
It only works rarely.
It's best if your desmene borders the target and you have claims on them. Even then you have to spam. Prestige and an honorable reputation are also very helpful.
If his capital is in one of your title's home areas don't bother. When you have the right prestige/reputation he'll offer to join you anyway, and you don't get BB for that. You do get BB if you ask people to be your vassal and they say yes 'cause you're being a big bully.
Nick
I've had an independent count offer his fealty to me though I had no duke or king titles in his area; I suspect this was because he and my character were friends...
Probably, or if it's a crusader state they tend to pledge allegiance to strong kingdoms or duchies in Europe (with high piety I suspect) rather than those who hold titles in the east.
If you do the classic newbie run with the Normans in Sicily, once England dissolves in civil war, you'll get loads of counts and dukes pledging to you from the isles. Really messes the map, but constant refusal gets boring.
This is fixed in the latest beta's. I never see such weird vassalisation offers anymore.
Interesting. In my current game as Poland (not using the betas) I've had a LOT of dukes and counts pledge to me without me asking, from all over the place. I've seen it happen occasionally before, but never on anything approaching such a large scale.
I have the latest beta and occasionally I still get offers from far away counts or dukes. But only when I have very high prestige, and when the count or duke is a cultural or religious stranger to his surroundings (like, Greek counts in northern Russia might still ask me as BYZ, or Georgians on Crete will ask the Georgian king). Some of the somewhat weird offers are from such instances. Normans in France asking the Sicilia Hautevilles falls under that category too and I have seen it in the latest beta. I don't get offers from wrong-cultured counts however, and the counts break away quickly once the Hautevilles become Italians (should change their name to Altovilla at that point, but that's another thing...).
I don't find this is true, now controlling France, and the Duke of Normandy is independent from England, i had a 101 rel to him, grabbed his Ducal title and it went to 76. Now granted, once it goes back to 100 and i really work on improving it back over that, i can see him wanting to be a vassal instead of a future victim, but in the short term, it hurts.
I just finished conquering most of Spain from the Emirate of Mallorca during a crusade (2 years of constant war - sheesh, it's a difficult trek across those Spanish mountains) and ended up with over 20,000 in prestige, 1800 Piety and a Honorable reputation.
Had just sent two fosterlings to him to get that 101, so yet another lesson learned. If no claim already, then leave well enough alone.
Of course, those 2 Engliash provinces sitting next to him, isn't helping me much.
Grabbing claims and immediately asking the other dude to become your vassal is not a good idea. A claim gives you BB, and BB is really bad when diplo-vassalizing. 3 BB is pretty much the kiss of death to any diplo-vasalization offer, and 2 BB isn't much better.
If you've got an honorable rep, land borders with the target, 1,000+ prestige, and a claim on him you may only have to ask 3-4 times for him to join.
Picking a single target to diplo-vassalize isn't much good in my experience. I have only been successful with one diplo-vassalization campaign. I was an Irish Duke, there were about a half-dozen independant Irish Counts (the British Map Mod adds a bunch of independent Irish Counts), and I spammed those guys with offers. Both piety and prestige were high so the BB I got when successful quickly dissapeared. And it still took an average of 15-20 requests for a Count to join.
When i said spam I meant spam.
Nick
If you've got an honorable rep, land borders with the target, 1,000+ prestige, and a claim on him you may only have to ask 3-4 times for him to join.
Picking a single target to diplo-vassalize isn't much good in my experience. I have only been successful with one diplo-vassalization campaign. I was an Irish Duke, there were about a half-dozen independant Irish Counts (the British Map Mod adds a bunch of independent Irish Counts), and I spammed those guys with offers. Both piety and prestige were high so the BB I got when successful quickly dissapeared. And it still took an average of 15-20 requests for a Count to join.
When i said spam I meant spam.
Nick
I hate when you make plans to have some fun conquering some place (last time happened with my Catalan game, thinking of taking Toulouse, independent for some years from France, no war with them), and when you take a King title, they come to you with a vassalization proposal. When I inherited the king title of Aragon, Toulouse and many others offered me to become my vassals. No diplomacy done, no marriages, no fosterlings... that should just not happen.
I think it's fun when they join out of their own accord. Makes you feel more like a really awesome medieval king, holding a splendid court with emissaries, troubadours and of course powerful rulers who are in total awe of your awesomeness come to offer their loyalty... rather than some half crazed dictator in his Führerbunker, plotting to take over the world and who gets upset when Poland actually accepts the ultimatum because he can't have his war.
I think it's fun when they join out of their own accord. Makes you feel more like a really awesome medieval king, holding a splendid court with emissaries, troubadours and of course powerful rulers who are in total awe of your awesomeness come to offer their loyalty... rather than some half crazed dictator in his Führerbunker, plotting to take over the world and who gets upset when Poland actually accepts the ultimatum because he can't have his war.
Yes, you have a point, but when they offer me to become vassals when I've just become king, and no diplomatic relations have been driven before... I find it unnatural... I'd expect two things: either they'd send fosterlings to me as a way to show their "alleigance", or they'd tried to make an alliance. And then becoming my vassals would be a natural way...
Nevermind, it's still an awesome game.
I do feel it has something to do with your supremacy...
I had conquered all of the Dutch culture provinces, only a small province kept a valiant resistance against my rule (or well, they valiantly refused all of my offers of vassalage), until they decided they too wanted to be part of my awesome empire.
I had conquered all of the Dutch culture provinces, only a small province kept a valiant resistance against my rule (or well, they valiantly refused all of my offers of vassalage), until they decided they too wanted to be part of my awesome empire.
The major factor is the title -- if you are someone's natural liege (e.g. you're FRANce to ORLEans), they will tend to pledge to you.
Other factors are reputation, prestige, traits, familial relationships, proximity, same culture, same religion.
Factors that can prevent vassalization are rivalries, ever having fought a war, or claims.
Explanation of some of the above: as France with a good reputation and prestige, you will get counts and dukes in the kingdom's borders pledge to you over time. But if as France you fought a war against an independent Orleans, ORLE will not pledge to you as long as both rulers are alive. When your king or his duke dies, he may pledge.
The same France with a bad reputation or poor prestige will not get any pledges.
As a big France with good rep and pres, you also get a good chance of picking up independent French counts and dukes outside your natural kingdom (such as in Germany), as well as Dutch, German, Italian, Catalan etc. independent counts and dukes whose realm neighbours yours. But these will only pledge to you if they have no natural liege, or have reasons not to pledge to him (such as the liege having bad rep/pres, a fought war, claims of the pledger on the pledgee).
It is almost never worth it offering vassalization. If the AI would accept, he would offer to pledge to you "soon" anyway. Exceptions to this rule are same culture same religion counts/dukes far away (these normally would not pledge -- in this way you can pick up counts and dukes in the Holy Land following a crusade that does not establish JERU), or same-or-similar culture neighbouring counts (such as the independent Swedish counts in 1066 -- as Denmark you can grab these early before they will pledge to Sweden).
Keep in mind offering vassalization gives you badboy (rep), which may make future vassalizations harder.
Other factors are reputation, prestige, traits, familial relationships, proximity, same culture, same religion.
Factors that can prevent vassalization are rivalries, ever having fought a war, or claims.
Explanation of some of the above: as France with a good reputation and prestige, you will get counts and dukes in the kingdom's borders pledge to you over time. But if as France you fought a war against an independent Orleans, ORLE will not pledge to you as long as both rulers are alive. When your king or his duke dies, he may pledge.
The same France with a bad reputation or poor prestige will not get any pledges.
As a big France with good rep and pres, you also get a good chance of picking up independent French counts and dukes outside your natural kingdom (such as in Germany), as well as Dutch, German, Italian, Catalan etc. independent counts and dukes whose realm neighbours yours. But these will only pledge to you if they have no natural liege, or have reasons not to pledge to him (such as the liege having bad rep/pres, a fought war, claims of the pledger on the pledgee).
It is almost never worth it offering vassalization. If the AI would accept, he would offer to pledge to you "soon" anyway. Exceptions to this rule are same culture same religion counts/dukes far away (these normally would not pledge -- in this way you can pick up counts and dukes in the Holy Land following a crusade that does not establish JERU), or same-or-similar culture neighbouring counts (such as the independent Swedish counts in 1066 -- as Denmark you can grab these early before they will pledge to Sweden).
Keep in mind offering vassalization gives you badboy (rep), which may make future vassalizations harder.