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Myth

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Hey all, before I begin this big long thing I’d like to say that I love Paradox’s games, especially CK and HoI2. I’d love to see these, especially HoI2 (being a WW2 history fanatic) expanded to be as accurate as possible. Also, being Latvian, I thought I’d provide some information and such for possible changes. I’ve divided them into 3 sections (due to only finding information that’d impinge on these 3 sections): Events, Military and Misc. Let us therefore begin, as I said before and seems to be quite accurate, “this big long thing”.

Events
(quotations describing events, followed by source of quotation and then suggestions in implementation)

- “Latvia signed a nonaggression pact with Germany in June of 1939” (http://www.historia.lv/publikacijas/gramat/mangulis/07.nod.htm), supported by “on June 7, 1939, Latvia entered into a non-aggression pact with Germany” (http://www.politics.lv/en/vesture/1940/4.htm) Suggestion for thing would be 2 choices: Accepting, obviously getting non-aggression pact with Germany; and Declining, lowering Germany’s relations with Latvia.
- “The Satversme terminated its performance, the Saeima was dissolved, the political parties were liquidated, municipalities were reorganised, several newspapers were closed, many political figures were arrested and the marital law was announced in the country. Such situation existed until the year 1938.” (http://www.politics.lv/en/vesture/1940/4.htm) It could be one of those simple, no-choice events and could lead to a dissent decrease (the event being the ending of this situation in 1938)
- “as well as in summer of the same year it participated in negotiations among the representatives of the USSR, England and France in Moscow” (http://www.politics.lv/en/vesture/1940/4.htm) Another no-choice event, improving relations with the UK and France. Or perhaps a choiced event where Latvia may (a) push forward its own agenda or (b) go with the flow and perhaps other choices may avail themselves as well.
- “On October 5, 1939, Latvia and the USSR signed a pact on mutual assistance, later also an agreement on trade. According to the provisions of the Pact in the territory of Latvia (mainly in Liepaja and Ventspils) the Soviet military bases were located (25000 persons).” (http://www.politics.lv/en/vesture/1940/4.htm) Obviously a choice event where Latvia may (a) refuse or (b) accept and grant military access to the USSR.


Military
- Chronological biography of Rudolfs Kandis “Commander of the 2nd Fighter Squadron... attends at the Daugavpils summer base to ensure that all Fighter Squadron flying personnel (not just the officers) would be assigned the new Gloster Gladiators.” (http://latvianaviation.com/BB_KandisR.html) First part implies at least 2 fighter squadrons, second implies that they were upgraded to Gloster Gladiators. Unfortunately, my copy of HoI2 is overseas at the moment (am currently a tourist :p) and I uninstalled it a little while ago, so I don’t know if the Gloster Gladiator is the most basic plane or not, but it would be nice to see Latvia gaining 2 fighter squadrons.


Misc
- “Latvian foreign trade is characterised by the 224,711,000 Lats worth of imports and 227,053,000 Lats worth of exports, in 1939. In other years the preponderance of exports has been even more striking. Among the exports, butter takes the first place - 21,929 tons, 51 million lats in value. Next in order of importance come timber, flax, bacon, live pigs, paper and grain. The importance of the Baltic States as producers of food for industrial Europe must not be under-estimated…According to countries, Latvian foreign trade shows the following picture in 1938 (the last complete normal pre-war year) : in percentage of the total, Great Britain - imports 20.8, exports 41.9; Germany - imports 38.9, exports 29.5; U.S.A. - imports 6.3, exports 1.4; U.S.S.R. - imports 3.5 per cent, exports 3.0 per cent.” (http://www.latvians.com/en/Reading/TheStoryOfLatvia/SoLatvia-06-chap.php) So basically, Latvia trades supplies for energy/metal/rare material (ie, the things it needs) with a couple West European countries.
- 2 provincial complaints: Mazirbe and Dagaupulis. In Latvian, it is Daugavpils, and it is referred to the same way in English. I am unsure where this Dagaupulis comes from (it was Dunaburg in German, Dvinsk in Russian), but would like to see it corrected. And Mazirbe is a tiny little station that was demi-important during the Soviet period for its satellite dish thing there, which the Red Army installed some time after WW2. A more suitable name for the province of Mazirbe would be Liepaja, or Ventspils—both important naval ports.
- Latvia wasn’t a fascist state. Under Ulmanis’ dictatorship it leaned toward an ethnocracy-type (ie, fascist) state but didn’t have the time to get there (if such ever was the destination). I think Paternal Autocrat (such as Estonia) would be more accurate.
- Latvia actually had a half-dozen tanks during the inter-war period, maybe they should start with the Great War tank technology? (I can’t remember if they do in game or not, but I believe they don’t).


Yeah, there’s quite a lot here, in comparison to the size and importance of the country, and I must admit I’m kinda surprised that you read the whole thing (if you did, of course). I know most of these are rather small things, but small things are just as important as big things, especially if they’re relatively big when compared to their country. I wrote all this up with the 1936 campaign in mind (as that’s what I play 99% of the time). When I get back to Latvia, I’m going to do some more research (the internet has nearly nothing) and see if there’s anything else (sorry! :p) that could be improved upon. I really hope to see at least some of these improvements in the next patch.
 
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OK, 1st welcome aboard. :)

About events. Right now I'm not sure if we can add more events. They need translating etc. Anyway good topics there. Some of those could be accomplished within the game mechanics. Allways think if it can be done in the game. It helps implementing things.

Military: We could propably think of giving a GW fighter division. Remember that fighter division equals around 100 airplanes. So how many planes were there? Did'nt see Rudolf Kandis in the leader files. Could add him but that depends on his rank. Was he general? And in arforce? Could you think of any traits for him?

GW tank tech could be added. Either of these:
# Great War Tank
id = 2010
# Tankette
id = 2020
Or even both.


Exports/imports: butter & food products would translate into supplies in HOI2. This is difficult to implement since supply production is achieved by using a portion of IC. There's no way we can force a fixed portion of IC to be used in supply production.

Province names: I agree. Dunno if these can be changed anymore. Could ask though.

Government type: Hmm. It should be easy enough to change gov't type though this would mean changing some ministers or their alignments.

Thanks for the info. Let's see what we can do.
 

Kevin Mc Carthy

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Right now Latvia starts with Basic Armored Cars. That ought to be about right to represent some obsolete tanks. Giving Latvia tank technology also allows them to build armored divisions, which doesn't seem right.

In '36 GC LIT has a 45% strength model 0 interceptor division, so off hand that would seem about right for LAT also.
 

Myth

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oh that's right about the armored cars, I had forgotten about that. yeah, armored cars and basic tanks would be too much.

also, another addition.

- By 1936 Ulmanis was in real control of the government (as mentioned earlier), so Kveisis wasn't much more than a figurehead. Currently he is the Belligerent Demagogue (or whatever, something like that) and it doesn't really fit well. I know there's some sort of figurehead trait somewhere in HoI2, I've seen it before somewhere. He should be that, I think.
 
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Myth

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whee, this was far back :p
I've noticed something about Latvia while playing HoI2 recently (yess, back home! :D). When you liberate it, Gulbene is an Estonian national province rather than a Latvian national province. so a big chunk of Latvia is missing where they should have Gulbene (but Estonia does instead) :confused:
 

Januss

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Sveiks Myth!

I really didnt now that in Latvia anybody else likes this game (except me :rolleyes: ). So its plesure to now that in Latvia is atleast some people who plays this game.
 

Myth

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now you do ;)
anyway, some more stuff :p

- "Till 1937 the four-cannon battery of 152-mm of guns Cane a shelf of coastal artillery "Daugavgriva" here was deployed. In 1937 152-mm guns have removed and have established on rail platforms, the first railway battery has turned out." (source: http://www.melkon.lv/eng/artel/mangalsala/mangalsala.php3) as this source is about Riga's coastal defenses, and implies that Latvia had at least some defenses before 1937, at which time they were placed onto armored cars. So maybe Latvia could have one level of coastal fortification and, if possible, in 1937 it is removed and another artillery brigade is created?

- "…After the October 5, 1939 treaty [which provided for the establishment of] Soviet army bases on Latvian territory, the Latvian Army [was] forced to design a new mobilization and defense plan. This plan [had] a single objective: to resist the U.S.S.R. armed forces should they attempt to take over all of Latvia. According to [Latvian] historian Edgars Andersons, mobilization was to take place in three days' time, and two defense lines were to be established in the east. The Daugava, Aiviekste, and Pededze rivers were to form the defense line." (source: http://vip.latnet.lv/LPRA/maslenki.htm). maybe add another option to the USSR demands Latvian territory event, or a seperate event entirely, that allows for the immediate mobilization (ie, creation) of a couple 1918 style divisions? (I assume the "in three days' time" refers to 3 days after the USSR DOWs Latvia in case of continual Latvian refusal)

- "Latvia had fairly large metal goods, woodworking, textile and food producing industries from which it could develop a strong economy through exports. Germany and Britain were the main importers, importing up to three fourths of its total goods." (source: http://depts.washington.edu/baltic/papers/independence.html) more metal? ;)

- "The progress being made by the Baltic countries could be seen if their trading position in 1938 is considered, when they exported about $65.8 million worth of goods, which was about half the amount exported by the [entire] Soviet Union in that year." (source: http://depts.washington.edu/baltic/papers/independence.html) another argument for at least Latvia (and the other Baltic states too) to begin with at least a couple trade agreements. whether or not the player wants to keep them is another matter :p

- No quote or anything for this, but it’s a generally well known fact (I think, at least) that many of the Latvian Germans left for Germany in the late 30s. Perhaps this entire migration could be condensed into one event, once Germany absorbs Memel, Latvia gets an event where it can allow the Latvian Germans to emigrate (Latvia loses some manpower, relations with Germany improved and Germany obviously gains the manpower Latvia loses) or it can stop them (dissent, relations with Germany deteriorate).
 
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Myth

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I'm not giving up on as much historical accurateness as possible :p

- "Eighteen Vickers 4-ton tanks were purchased 1935. Twelve were MG-armed M1936 and six were cannon-armed M1937" and "Latvia bought 32 Krupp-Protze in the 1930s." (Source: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/latvia/latvia.htm) I think Latvia deserves one armored car brigade ;)
- "35 Ford-Vairogs V8 were built in 1930s and armed with single AA-gun" (source: ibid) Maybe an AA brigade as well?
 

pedal2000

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Myth said:
- "…After the October 5, 1939 treaty [which provided for the establishment of] Soviet army bases on Latvian territory, the Latvian Army [was] forced to design a new mobilization and defense plan. This plan [had] a single objective: to resist the U.S.S.R. armed forces should they attempt to take over all of Latvia. According to [Latvian] historian Edgars Andersons, mobilization was to take place in three days' time, and two defense lines were to be established in the east. The Daugava, Aiviekste, and Pededze rivers were to form the defense line." (source: http://vip.latnet.lv/LPRA/maslenki.htm). maybe add another option to the USSR demands Latvian territory event, or a seperate event entirely, that allows for the immediate mobilization (ie, creation) of a couple 1918 style divisions? (I assume the "in three days' time" refers to 3 days after the USSR DOWs Latvia in case of continual Latvian refusal)

I wasn't aware of a USSR demands event.. is there really one? :eek: Here I am wasting all my Money on demanding the land over and over and swearing at them.
 

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pedal2000 said:
I wasn't aware of a USSR demands event.. is there really one? :eek: Here I am wasting all my Money on demanding the land over and over and swearing at them.

there isn't an event
 

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Myth said:
I'm not giving up on as much historical accurateness as possible :p

- "Eighteen Vickers 4-ton tanks were purchased 1935. Twelve were MG-armed M1936 and six were cannon-armed M1937" and "Latvia bought 32 Krupp-Protze in the 1930s." (Source: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/latvia/latvia.htm) I think Latvia deserves one armored car brigade ;)
- "35 Ford-Vairogs V8 were built in 1930s and armed with single AA-gun" (source: ibid) Maybe an AA brigade as well?

If they had type 1936 and 1937 tanks shouldnt they atleast be able to build GW tank division??

Did they have any license productions of any tanks??
 

Myth

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well, this same site says that for the CKD LTL (some tank) "One prototype was built to Latvian specifications. The design was accepted for production but no deliverys had occured prior to the Soviet takeover of this nation. The new Slovakian state purchased all 21 of these units. This was the only CKD (later BMM) light tank ever built with rear drive."

I guess they did begin producing tanks a bit, before the annexation of latvia ended production.