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Portal

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Paradox, as you have stated, we will have five major expansions; Islam, Byzantium, hinted Pagans, ??? [Republics?] and ??? [Theocracies?]. But, as you have also clarified, there will be a multitude of minor DLC's, including Sunset Invasion and the Portrait / Music packs. Now, I applaud you for your sheer daring and my faith in Paradox is reaffirmed, but how about we also have historically-grounded DLC's contrasted the ludicrous? What I am proposing is a multitude of minor DLC's in the vein of Sunset Invasion, but instead focusing on improving CKII's historical excellency!

Of course, the problem here is research. Researching the historical inaccuracies is painful, time-consuming and difficult. It probably takes just as much time as coding! So, instead of you doing the work, let us do it! That is the second layer of my proposal. The community in Paradox Forums is made up of enthusiastic history-buffs, and you can tell from the enthusiastic suggestions post Sunset Invasion announcement that they are eager to have some contribution to the game! We can post in a stickied thread *cough* the suggestions and a community member *cough cough* can shift through the suggestions and feature the best on the Original Post *COUGH COUGH COUGH.* This saves you the work of reading through a multitude of idiotic posts, as well as improving Paradox's interaction with the community, which is already awesome, and generating general goodwill towards Paradox! It's a win-win, isn't it?

Here's a few suggestions to get you started;

  1. Rurikovich's Rota

    This is actually pretty simple. Rota succession would give preference for inheritance to brothers, and when a brother inherits a principality/grand duchy an event fires granting his former primary title to the next youngest brother. Higher ranked duchies, such as Kiev, would have a higher amount of holding slots and tech level.

  2. Byzantium's Bureucracy

    In Byzantium, feudalism never took hold. It rather held up to a Roman-era system where precedence was given to higher court titles rather than landed titles. Themes (the areas the game calls duchies) were appointed titles for military commanders who were called 'strategos' or 'doux.' So, my proposal is for a multitude of court titles to be introduced such as 'Kaisar' (corruption of caesar) which give an opinion boost to the emperor from the appointees, and gives the appointees a large amount of prestige and a huge plot power boost.

    Next, landed titles. It could be said that you cannot make themes appointed as it would remove the marriage game and the dynastic focus. However, small land-holdings were hereditary and kept in the dynasty, and those often signified a lot of power within the theme. These 'small' land holdings could be simplified to be at County level, and themes could have a new succession called 'Appointed,' which would be similar to appointing bishops with Free Investiture. Then, usurpation of higher titles [except e_byzantium] could be allowed. This means that once a family becomes so powerful the Emperor's will simply loses power, and the family becomes the de facto ruler of the theme and can usurp the title. Perhaps, once Imperial Authority reaches Autonomy vassals could enact Primogeniture/Gavelkind/Seniority/Elective,

    Due to the inability to have vassals at a county level as count, however, either two things need to be done. One, vassals of Byzantium have a modifier increasing demesne limit, or 'viceroys' can be appointed as vassals of regions equal in power to their liege's title. Appointing viceroys could actually expand a lot of the game's area; for example, Dual-Monarchies could appoint a viceroy to rule the second title and avoid the negative vassal opinion for ruling both titles directly.

    A number of plots could also be introduced. One could be 'Force Emperor to Recognize Heir as Appointed Successor.' Another could be 'Stage Palace Coup,' allowing a character without a claim to usurp the throne if he is popular enough (as in, has 250%+ plot power or something).

    Anyway, this bureacratic system could make Byzantium more historic, immersive and intriguing than it was before.

GO FORTH AND POST.
 

Portal

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C'mon guys, this isn't the usual newbie crap :|

Lol.
 

Voy

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Doomdark said this in the latest DD.

We have never said how many major DLC/expansions we will do. In fact, we do not know - it's mostly up to you.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...usader-Kings-II-Sunset-Invasion-DLC-Dev-Diary

Anyway. If PI wanted the Byzantium Bureaucracy they'd include that in the Legacy of Rome DLC... they didn't.

I'm for a Kievan Rus DLC however. A DLC that gives the Russian principalities something unique with the head of power in Kiev who gives out the princely titles to his relatives who wage a lot of wars between each other. I'll wager that PI will at least attempt to make some sort of DLC of this kind.
 

Portal

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Doomdark said this in the latest DD.



http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...usader-Kings-II-Sunset-Invasion-DLC-Dev-Diary

Anyway. If PI wanted the Byzantium Bureaucracy they'd include that in the Legacy of Rome DLC... they didn't.

I'm for a Kievan Rus DLC however. A DLC that gives the Russian principalities something unique with the head of power in Kiev who gives out the princely titles to his relatives who wage a lot of wars between each other. I'll wager that PI will at least attempt to make some sort of DLC of this kind.

I was disappointed with LoR. It was excellent, but still felt lacking. Would it be possible to mod in the centralised imperial bureaucracy using the code found in the investiture?

Volga Bulgars could use their own unique culture and such, and the DLC could be expanded to focus on Russia as a whole. Really, Ruthenia should be Imperial-level and the Grand Duchies and Principalities should be the existing ducal-level states at game start.
 

Sleight of Hand

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Volga Bulgars could use their own unique culture and such, and the DLC could be expanded to focus on Russia as a whole. Really, Ruthenia should be Imperial-level and the Grand Duchies and Principalities should be the existing ducal-level states at game start.
Adding Bulgar culture is a very simple process which could be done in a patch. It's about five minutes' work and certainly couldn't be stretched to cover a DLC.

I'd love a small DLC focusing on the Rus', however. They have been pretty badly neglected since the game was released, and I was kinda hoping they were going to get some love in the Orthodox DLC, but then it turned out to be Byzantine-specific.

Something improving Africa (both sides) would be great as well.
 

cybrxkhan

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I've posted ideas about minor DLCs in other threads, but I suppose I can flesh them out a bit more here:

Iberia

Balancing between the Muslim and Christian states in Iberia would be a good starting point, rather than having the Iberian wars be resolved in a few decades.

A key mechanic here might be the introduction of some sort of way for Muslim/Christian states in Iberia to encourage or discourage tolerance of other faiths. This could be represented as a "slider", or, rather, as a set of laws unique to the Iberian culture (and the Andalusians - who should be moved into the Iberian culture group, anyways). It could also be simply a set of decisions, too - a decision to practice tolerance of other faiths, or a decision to expel those of different faiths (and thus instantly convert a province to your religion, but perhaps with a ridiculously high piety and prestige cost). Encouraging tolerance will decrease religious tensions and maybe even garner you some extra tax income, but it may upset other Christians and/or make you lose piety or something, while discouraging tolerance might increase the ability of your troops (for holy war).

And of course flavor events and titles and the like. Also the Berbers would be put in as a unique culture.


Celtic

A Celtic-focused DLC might introduce Celtic variations of the Gavelkind and Elective succession system. It might also include flavor events and some way to represent the monasticism of Ireland, for instance, as well as the clans in Scotland and Ireland. I don't really have many more ideas for this.


West Africa

Focusing on West Africa will almost certainly need some way to show the Trans-Saharan trade routes that made the savanna empires so wealthy in the first place. There could also be new provinces, and thus new duchies and kingdoms, as well as flavor events (as always). Additionally, there can also be a tension between Islamization and keeping the traditional pagan faiths. This might be represented in a way similarly to westernization in EU - basically the West African states will slowly become Islamic if they choose to, which will bring new economic and military benefits, but it might cause unrest particularly among traditionalists.


East Africa

Anything focusing on East Africa will need to first balance the current Fatimid curbstomping of the region. One way is to implement a Baqt. It could just be a simple event that pops up every 3 years or so requiring the Nubian rulers to pay an Islamic ruler of the Kingdom of Egypt some gold, and a truce will occur afterwards.


Central Asia

SOmehow simulating the Silk Road would be nice. I... don't really know how this would occur, though.


Ottoman

A DLC focusing on the rise of the Ottomans would be nice, even though it is rather late game (and some people don't like late starts and the like). This might also introduce gunpowder into the late games of CKII, as well as introduce a way for the Turks to colonize/assimilate Anatolia into their culture if they so wish. Although I feel this would just be a nicer version of the Islam DLC.



I probably have a few more vague ideas. Hopefully I'll remember them.


As for Byzantine bureaucracy and the like, one very simple way to make things a bit more "realistic" (whatever that means) is to simply make it possible for Byzantine Douxes (and Despots) to be able to claim the throne, as discussed above. What I would suggest is to allow the Douxes and Despots to be able to get a strong claim on the empire through a decision (once they have enough prestige and piety and territory, for instance). Then they still have to form a faction and fight a faction war, but otherwise this is a relatively minimal change and works through the current system.
 

Voy

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I've posted ideas about minor DLCs in other threads, but I suppose I can flesh them out a bit more here:

Iberia

Balancing between the Muslim and Christian states in Iberia would be a good starting point, rather than having the Iberian wars be resolved in a few decades.

A key mechanic here might be the introduction of some sort of way for Muslim/Christian states in Iberia to encourage or discourage tolerance of other faiths. This could be represented as a "slider", or, rather, as a set of laws unique to the Iberian culture (and the Andalusians - who should be moved into the Iberian culture group, anyways). It could also be simply a set of decisions, too - a decision to practice tolerance of other faiths, or a decision to expel those of different faiths (and thus instantly convert a province to your religion, but perhaps with a ridiculously high piety and prestige cost). Encouraging tolerance will decrease religious tensions and maybe even garner you some extra tax income, but it may upset other Christians and/or make you lose piety or something, while discouraging tolerance might increase the ability of your troops (for holy war).

And of course flavor events and titles and the like. Also the Berbers would be put in as a unique culture.


Celtic

A Celtic-focused DLC might introduce Celtic variations of the Gavelkind and Elective succession system. It might also include flavor events and some way to represent the monasticism of Ireland, for instance, as well as the clans in Scotland and Ireland. I don't really have many more ideas for this.


West Africa

Focusing on West Africa will almost certainly need some way to show the Trans-Saharan trade routes that made the savanna empires so wealthy in the first place. There could also be new provinces, and thus new duchies and kingdoms, as well as flavor events (as always). Additionally, there can also be a tension between Islamization and keeping the traditional pagan faiths. This might be represented in a way similarly to westernization in EU - basically the West African states will slowly become Islamic if they choose to, which will bring new economic and military benefits, but it might cause unrest particularly among traditionalists.


East Africa

Anything focusing on East Africa will need to first balance the current Fatimid curbstomping of the region. One way is to implement a Baqt. It could just be a simple event that pops up every 3 years or so requiring the Nubian rulers to pay an Islamic ruler of the Kingdom of Egypt some gold, and a truce will occur afterwards.


Central Asia

SOmehow simulating the Silk Road would be nice. I... don't really know how this would occur, though.


Ottoman

A DLC focusing on the rise of the Ottomans would be nice, even though it is rather late game (and some people don't like late starts and the like). This might also introduce gunpowder into the late games of CKII, as well as introduce a way for the Turks to colonize/assimilate Anatolia into their culture if they so wish. Although I feel this would just be a nicer version of the Islam DLC.



I probably have a few more vague ideas. Hopefully I'll remember them.


As for Byzantine bureaucracy and the like, one very simple way to make things a bit more "realistic" (whatever that means) is to simply make it possible for Byzantine Douxes (and Despots) to be able to claim the throne, as discussed above. What I would suggest is to allow the Douxes and Despots to be able to get a strong claim on the empire through a decision (once they have enough prestige and piety and territory, for instance). Then they still have to form a faction and fight a faction war, but otherwise this is a relatively minimal change and works through the current system.

Some of those are just fixes to be placed in patches. It's not like they're going to add super small DLC just so that you get a new succession type.
 

cybrxkhan

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Some of those are just fixes to be placed in patches. It's not like they're going to add super small DLC just so that you get a new succession type.

Of course a small DLC won't just have a new succession type - there'll also be tons of flavor events. This is basically what LoR was. Other than the retinues, there was a "new" succession type (rather a Byzantine-unique way of handling succession via the born in the purple) and some flavor events. That's it.

I think these smaller DLCs can pretty much be the same as LoR. Add one or two new mechanics, particularly for a certain region, culture, or religious group, and then have ton of flavor events, and voila that's it.
 

Portal

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LoR also patched Orthodoxy as a whole.
 

Roguedemon

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I would love to see a horde dlc for cumans, mongols, turks and volga bulgars or some minor HRE changes. Failling that (as much hate as this may get me) a few minor ahistorical/ fantasy DLCs may be quite nice; perhaps some 'what if' scenarios that didn't happen but could have.
 

Portal

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Is it possible to mod in Byzantine centralization?
 

Mixxer5

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Anyway. If PI wanted the Byzantium Bureaucracy they'd include that in the Legacy of Rome DLC... they didn't.

And I won't buy another DLC for Byzantium adding one extra system. It doesn't make sense for me. The should've created something that make Byzzies unique at first time, not by releasing new DLC for them every month. I want expansion pack, not DLC.
 

ShadowGamer42

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East Africa

Anything focusing on East Africa will need to first balance the current Fatimid curbstomping of the region. One way is to implement a Baqt. It could just be a simple event that pops up every 3 years or so requiring the Nubian rulers to pay an Islamic ruler of the Kingdom of Egypt some gold, and a truce will occur afterwards.

Ottoman

A DLC focusing on the rise of the Ottomans would be nice, even though it is rather late game (and some people don't like late starts and the like). This might also introduce gunpowder into the late games of CKII, as well as introduce a way for the Turks to colonize/assimilate Anatolia into their culture if they so wish. Although I feel this would just be a nicer version of the Islam DLC.
These are my favourite; most useful suggestion. It means you can take out alot of land before even having to thinking about the Big Green Blob; and also maybe a way for that when someone with the Kingdom of Egypt as their top liege title, they get a 15 year truce instead of 10 to everyone except other vassals of Egypt.

Gunpowder is what I'd like and a Renaissance Sprite Pack. Hand-cannons were being used by the Mamluks in 1260 and also by the Mongols. And for muskets, maybe if you have tech level 4, all archers get replaced as Gunmen and the provinces with the level 4 get custom sprites etc. There could also be a 'Firing Lines' tactic, giving a huge buff to Archers (which would possibly renamed to Gunmen/Soldiers/Musketmen etc.) though medium debuffs to other units.