Odds and Ends I Would Love to See in FTM/HoI3

[jju_57]

Diplomacy is so much a part of war that it can't take a back seat regardless of if we are talking only about Minors or majors.

Things like that only happen because the game continues to treat the AI and players exactly the same. Just because you give the player more tools to influence the tides of the game by means of diplomacy doesn't mean you have to give the AI the exact same tools. No, an AI controlled Switzerland should not be joining the Allies in 1939. But a player controlled Switzerland shouldn't be held to that same limitation.

The hole in the argument is that the AI and humans will continue to be treated the same. PI has never said that it would do otherwise.

Oh and based on your logic a human USA should be able to join SU or Germany right? Or have a human France leave the allies and join Germany and attack UK.

 

[Danmark Rising]

The hole in the argument is that the AI and humans will continue to be treated the same. PI has never said that it would do otherwise.

Oh and based on your logic a human USA should be able to join SU or Germany right? Or have a human France leave the allies and join Germany and attack UK.

Absolutely YES!

 

[jju_57]

Absolutely YES!

Then totally unrealistic and you should go back to HOI3 v1.0. That isn't a WW2 game but a fantasy game.

 

[Danmark Rising]

Then totally unrealistic and you should go back to HOI3 v1.0. That isn't a WW2 game but a fantasy game.

No, it isn't fantasy, it just means I like exploring other possibilities and the game, which is only a framework, should be flexible enough to allow for those possibilities, even if ahistorical. You should never tie the players hands to the extent that HOI3 often does.

 

[jju_57]

No, it isn't fantasy, it just means I like exploring other possibilities and the game, which is only a framework, should be flexible enough to allow for those possibilities, even if ahistorical. You should never tie the players hands to the extent that HOI3 often does.

That debate was discussed over and over when HOI3 came out. Go search for sandbox vs reality. And reality won out. Like I said if you want ahistorical go back to version 1.0 of HOI3 and get all you want.

 

[Danmark Rising]

That debate was discussed over and over when HOI3 came out. Go search for sandbox vs reality. And reality won out. Like I said if you want ahistorical go back to version 1.0 of HOI3 and get all you want.

HOI3 1.0 ties the players hands just as much, if not more than it currently does. The problem with 1.0 was that there weren't enough controls on the AI. So no I won't go back to 1.0 and yes I will continue to bring up the Sandbox method of playing because it's just as valid.

 

[Oof]

HOI3 1.0 ties the players hands just as much, if not more than it currently does. The problem with 1.0 was that there weren't enough controls on the AI. So no I won't go back to 1.0 and yes I will continue to bring up the Sandbox method of playing because it's just as valid.

If a player can do it the AI can as well. Its seems to be something most players forget. They like to have all the options to play a communist or fascist USA, but when they are playing England they complain on this forum about the USA joining the Comintern or the Axis. Its a two way street remember that.

And as far as i am concerned i like diplomacy a lot better in SF than in Hoi3. But if you dont like it, you can always mod it!

 

[1alexey]

Diplomacy is so much a part of war that it can't take a back seat regardless of if we are talking only about Minors or majors.



Things like that only happen because the game continues to treat the AI and players exactly the same. Just because you give the player more tools to influence the tides of the game by means of diplomacy doesn't mean you have to give the AI the exact same tools.

I do not get this. You want to play with different rules for Human and AI? The CHEATS are made for you! So what is the problem?
The fact that cheats are called "cheats" and not "promoted" by devs? I bet this will never happen

 

[impspy]

I do not get this. You want to play with different rules for Human and AI? The CHEATS are made for you! So what is the problem?
The fact that cheats are called "cheats" and not "promoted" by devs? I bet this will never happen

I think what he meant was the limits the game places on the player in order to follow a historical course, something that the AI should usually choose to follow, but the player may not.

 

[jju_57]

But the devs have said many times the AI would have the same capabilities as the human player. So this might be a change in fundamentally how the game works. Remember that the AI is still running all the other countries. So if you are US and want to go commie the UK AI is still playing like you would join them. And that is a disservice to the AI as it can't read your mind and know that you plan to do something really ahistorical.

 

[Danmark Rising]

If a player can do it the AI can as well. Its seems to be something most players forget. They like to have all the options to play a communist or fascist USA, but when they are playing England they complain on this forum about the USA joining the Comintern or the Axis. Its a two way street remember that.

That's part of my point, there is absolutely no reason why that has to be the case. The AI should generally play in a historical manner. The Player should not be held to those same limitations.

So if you are US and want to go commie the UK AI is still playing like you would join them. And that is a disservice to the AI as it can't read your mind and know that you plan to do something really ahistorical.

That's the AI's problem not mine, and frankly the AI won't continue to think I'm going to join them becuase as I become more friendly with Germany the UK AI will start treating me as a threat. And especially so when I declare war on them. By tieing the hands of the player your throwing away half the potential fun of the game.

Look at it this way, when you play Germany, your not playing with the intention of loosing the war, your doing it to change history and beat the mellons out of the Allies. If I play the US and want to join Germany and divide up the world, there should be no reason why I shouldn't be able to try tp do so. It shouldn't be easy but it shouldn't be impossiable. The framework is there to do it. The engine can handle it. They just have to give the player a few more diplomatic tools that the AI doesn't have access to that allow the player to move their country in that direction. Just like in the other thread where someone asked about teaming the USSR and Japan and seeing what they can do. That's the brilliance of this game. There's potential here for so much more fun by letting players experment with alternatives without having to rip the guts out and rewritting everything through modding. Just give us the tools to move ourselves around diplomatically so we can have some fun with it. The historical flavor of the game doesn't have to be ruined in order to make it happen. The mod HPP goes a long way in actually making the type of play I'm talking about possiable and that does it in a very confined and limited way.

There is just so much potential in this game and I feel like it's just be wasted by tieing the players hands as it currently does.

 

[wright1331]

Absolutely YES!

+1

I dont see why it should be impossible for a Human USA to move there country to somewhere other than the Allies

 

[unmerged(76082)]

Redo canals to make map modding easier.

 

[Hiiri]

+1

I dont see why it should be impossible for a Human USA to move there country to somewhere other than the Allies

+1 here too.

What's the point of making a WW2 game in the first place if there's only one possible historical outcome?

We all know how the war went and it'd be so much more satisfying to nuke US as Tibet. (I don't know if this is even possible, but it would be fun to try)

Edit: Sorry, that was off the topic. Umm. What I would like to see, is the reserve mission working for air force. (Did naval have it too? If so, that too)

 

[Oof]

That's part of my point, there is absolutely no reason why that has to be the case.

Yes there is. As already explained by Jju the AI and the human player have the same options. This is a completely different approach by Paradox than HOI1 and HOI2 and in some respect HOI3 as well. It’s the way the game operates, except it!

The AI should generally play in a historical manner. The Player should not be held to those same limitations.

So you don’t want historical realism but the AI should!? But if the AI has to have those limitations, how do you want to turn the USA fascist when you play Germany in the first place? Because according to your argument the AI should play along historical lines!

BTW its already possible to turn countries like for example the USA, the Netherlands, etc. I have done it myself in SF, and its relatively easy it just needs some time and effort, like everything in diplomacy.

I just don’t get your your point because the possibility to play ahistorical games on the diplomatic level is already there, yet you are complaining you can’t. Just don’t expect that the AI wont try to counter your moves and you dont always get the outcome you like.

Also remember that the majority of players complained about exactly what you want and that this is the main reason it has been changed. If you really want this so bad, why not put your effort in modding it instead of posts? I reckon there are more players, even if they are a minority, would want the same thing. So there probably is someone who can and will help you out!

 

[Oof]

+1

I dont see why it should be impossible for a Human USA to move there country to somewhere other than the Allies

-1
It already is possible!

 

[Chaoslord666]

what i also would like to see again (yes i always come back to HOI2) is the slide bar option for aircraft on which level of organisation/damage they stop continuing their duty... the defensive/offensive feature never worked for me. So it would allow to leave the air force alone with their orders without wondering after a few weeks why 2 Bomber and 2 fighter groups are blasted away (in that case also without a popup or something). If that isn't possible a popup-option at minimum if some airplanes become critical stats.

 

[comsubpac]

what i also would like to see again (yes i always come back to HOI2) is the slide bar option for aircraft on which level of organisation/damage they stop continuing their duty... the defensive/offensive feature never worked for me. So it would allow to leave the air force alone with their orders without wondering after a few weeks why 2 Bomber and 2 fighter groups are blasted away (in that case also without a popup or something). If that isn't possible a popup-option at minimum if some airplanes become critical stats.

set them on passive and they will never die.

 

[Oof]

That's part of my point, there is absolutely no reason why that has to be the case. The AI should generally play in a historical manner. The Player should not be held to those same limitations.

Have you checked out the HPP mod. From what i gathered its more flexible when it comes to diplomacy and government type(?)

 

[madprofmike]

air combat events and naval combat events