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Geredis

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Well, I love how everything's coming together so far. That said, there's just one nitpick I have to make. What's up with the crazy Canadian-American border, especially out west beyond the Great Lakes? It looks pretty funky out there when you've a perfectly straight line delineating the two countries.
 

Rompa

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Wasn't that german flag abolished in 1935?
 

potski

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Lot of nonsense about the EUIII graphics in this thread, that these are better than what we've seen so far for HOI3. And also, even more nonsense that the borders will be "smoothed out" etc. over the next year, as this is an alpha and the look of the borders will be "improved".

I've never played EUIII so looked up some screen shots. See:

EUIII: In Nomine Screen Shot

Look at the shape of the land borders of Bithynia, and you can see that the shape matches the same as we can see for HOI3. The main difference with the EUIII and HOI3 screen shots is that the EUIII ones have units, towns, ships etc. and EUIII is being viewed from a lower perspective.

Looking at the HOI3 one with only a single infantry sprite in Paris, for instance, you see it is an almost vertical view of the map:

HOI3 Alpha Screen Shot

Since there are so few objects sitting on top of the HOI3 map, the effect is to make the "straight lines" of the borders more obvious than EUIII. But there is no doubt that they are identical, and this is the way it will be in the final release of HOI3.

The reason we know it is the same now, and will be in the final release, is that the developers have stated clearly that HOI3 will use the EUIII graphics engine.

It is absolutely clear that the engine renders the borders on the fly from a database of the provinces, with a list of 5 or 6 points designating the vertices of the provinces. The graphics engine links these points with straight(ish) lines. The lines are drawn slightly zig-zag, instead of dead straight, but the effect is still to make the provinces roughly pentagonal or hexagonal. So what!

This engine should allow the map to be zoomed in and out fluidly, for instance (I very much hope) with a mouse scroll wheel, and for the perspective to be changed. And also for the screen to be easily adapted for what-ever screen resolution/size you are using. With the overhead on the machine kept reasonable.

It also presumably allows all of the province borders to be modded. If the borders were smooth irregular curves, this would not be the case, except with a massive amount of work.

The graphics engine can render six straight(ish) lines joining six points in a fraction of the time that it would take to render a reasonably smooth likeness of an actual province boundary.

To make that boundary of Bithynia smooth in the way I believe some people imagine (and still scrollable/moddable) might mean giving it say 24 points, joined by a combination of straight lines and bezier curves. To describe the bezier curves alone (look up the maths in Wikipedia if you are interested) would mean the province database would be enormous. Moddable, in theory, but I doubt ANYONE would have the time, tools and knowledge to do it.

I, for one, am more than happy with the look of the HOI3 provinces. Let the developers develop, please, not endlessly tweak borders, because someone in these forums who lives in Province X thinks the border should be 10km further to the north than Paradox have drawn it. Jesus!

Do we want Paradox to pay a developer who spends the next year creating an AI that can make a reasonable effort at defending in depth, and understand encirclements, and doesn't sit dumbly by while you wipe out whole armies. Or a developer who makes the borders look pretty?

No-one will notice the shape of the borders of Reims when Guderian's Panzer Korps is crossing the Meuse. ;)
 

Rompa

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potski said:
Do we want Paradox to pay a developer who spends the next year creating an AI that can make a reasonable effort at defending in depth, and understand encirclements, and doesn't sit dumbly by while you wipe out whole armies. Or a developer who makes the borders look pretty?

Pretty borders, definitely!!! :rolleyes:
 

dublish

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Rompa said:
Wasn't that german flag abolished in 1935?
Yes. However, I believe the historical German flag was abolished in ~1945.
 

kender79

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It seem to be really promising.

Global view are really nice.
Darker color seems good for this Period.

GUI (graphic User Interface) is pretty and similar to HOI2.
It's part of the engine but Paradox did a good job.
I would love to know the resolution of these screen (and the max resolution supported by the game).

The Map need some work but Paradox is only in Alpha's work.
Province/Regions are managed by ID in the Database.
The forms and name of province could be change until the game become Gold.
It's seem to be a generic problem with accent caracter (àéè..).
A big review (10 000 province) would be needed, but we must have Faith (if not Paradox, in the the Alphe/Beta Tester).

Sprite/counter need some graphic work.
But it must be too early to present them.
Paradox must have include them following all the feedback on the trailer.
HOI without counter would not be HOI.

The menu seem to be more interesting.
Not by the presented element.
But by the missing element (Paradox keep somethings for later).
Watch the background of the menu.
We have 3 part:
  • Ressources, with new icon. I suppose it will not change.
  • ???
  • Global Production¨(PP)
What will be in the second part?
Manpower, TC, ... or specialised production or some new system...
 

noddysseus

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Looks good.
But tell me; is the positioning of the river Oder which is visible in the 2nd image placed there for strategic or geographical reasons?
 

seboden

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potski said:
[...]
It is absolutely clear that the engine renders the borders on the fly from a database of the provinces, with a list of 5 or 6 points designating the vertices of the provinces. The graphics engine links these points with straight(ish) lines. The lines are drawn slightly zig-zag, instead of dead straight, but the effect is still to make the provinces roughly pentagonal or hexagonal. So what!

[...]

The graphics engine can render six straight(ish) lines joining six points in a fraction of the time that it would take to render a reasonably smooth likeness of an actual province boundary.

To make that boundary of Bithynia smooth in the way I believe some people imagine (and still scrollable/moddable) might mean giving it say 24 points, joined by a combination of straight lines and bezier curves. To describe the bezier curves alone (look up the maths in Wikipedia if you are interested) would mean the province database would be enormous. Moddable, in theory, but I doubt ANYONE would have the time, tools and knowledge to do it.
[...]
I agree with nearly everything you say, however the graphics engine in EU3 (and therefore in HoI3) works a bit different than you seem to assume.
It doesn't use text defined border points and connects them with a straight line , instead it interprets a bitmap where all provinces are color-coded. This makes modding it very easy (just load it up in paint and change the color of a few pixels) but the bitmap, on which the map is based, has a much lower resolution than the actual map itself, for computing reasons. There are only a few dozen pixels which make up a province of the HoI3 size which naturally limits the resolution of the borders and makes them look ragged.
BTW this is also the reason why EU:Rome has smoother borders; since the map is much smaller, there can be many more pixels per province in the bitmap upon which it is based.
 

MichaelM

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I Killed Kenny said:
Sorry Johan, but can you do something about Portugal? It seems you always get it ugly, very ugly...
The problem with borders is that something can look perfectly fine to a person who has never lived there. For example, I can see at first glance that the borders of the US are wrong (the Mexican border and Maine, in particular), yet it obviously looked fine to whoever made it. In the same way, I could probably make what looked to me like a perfectly acceptable map of Sweden or Portugal, yet it would horrify a resident.

I hope that with HOI3's increased budget and timeframe they will be able to correct things like this. And before someone says "ALPHA!", let me point you to the Victoria map of the US. :)
 

unmerged(62251)

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coreymas said:
Have faith in the future Beta testers of HOI3 to point out these types of issues..... :)

Corey

*Gets his East Asian maps to help with Korea/Japan/Manchuria*


I've always HATED HoI2's division of Korea/Japan/Manchuria. China Proper (the land south of the Wall) are good, but for the east of East Asia....
 

von Sachsen

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Where is Luxemburg? It looks as if the great blue giant has swallowed it!
 

jdrou

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von Sachsen said:
Where is Luxemburg? It looks as if the great blue giant has swallowed it!
It's only a shade or two different from France but it is different if you look closely.
 
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Hey take a look, here are two screens:

First, older one.
hoi39mg6.jpg



Second, from this thread:
alphaokt10803kv8.jpg


I'm looking at those two screens and really I'm not able to figure how those provinces are going to be.
Look, at the first one we can see, large (like HoI2) provinces divided into small subprovinces.
At the second one, we have medium size provinces known from EU3.

Can somebody tell me what happend with small and large provinces?
I was not able to find any screenshots showing the same regions to compare the province borders, but for me it looks like completly different things.

Is somebody fooling us or is it just my lack of understanding?