Occupation speed - what gives?

[Bunnytob]

I've been playing the game for a while now, and there's something I've consistently noticed - the AI is always occupying territory faster than me. According to the wiki, occupation speed is directly proportional to the number of brigades occupying said province.
So how come, with no forts involved, my 10-to-15 thousand strong armies are consistently occupying territory at the same speed as a single enemy infantry regiment? What gives?

 

[cetvrtak]

I've been playing the game for a while now, and there's something I've consistently noticed - the AI is always occupying territory faster than me. According to the wiki, occupation speed is directly proportional to the number of brigades occupying said province.
So how come, with no forts involved, my 10-to-15 thousand strong armies are consistently occupying territory at the same speed as a single enemy infantry regiment? What gives?

How are you measuring speed?

Edit: They could be using a high recon leader

Reconnaissance: Modifier to reconnaissance (per unit?). Reconnaissance increases your occupation speed and reduces the enemy's bonus from digging in

Note that it is still unclear how the modifier is applied.

 

[Bunnytob]

I'm measuring speed in "days taken to occupy province".
In most cases, recon definitely doesn't play a role - the leaders they're using definitely don't have recon (can any?), and if they have recon I also have it (at 100%).
Besides, as I said, I'm being out-occupied by 3k or 6k infantry, with nothing else.

 

[cetvrtak]

I'm measuring speed in "days taken to occupy province".

And what are the exact numbers? How long does it take for you and how long for them to occupy the province?

In most cases, recon definitely doesn't play a role - the leaders they're using definitely don't have recon (can any?)

Sure they can, hence the wiki quote for leaders traits.

, and if they have recon I also have it (at 100%).

Doesn't matter if you have 100%, if they have 125% they'll still occupy faster.

 

[Bunnytob]

Okay, rough numbers from a recent game: My army, ~11k strong (of which 3k was artillery) took ~180 days to occupy a province. A 3k-strong enemy inf. Regiment appeared at ~25% and surpassed me at ~70%. No cavalry or recon was involved. If it matters, I was Bolivia an they were Peru, though I was ahead in military tech.

Other potential causes I can think of are either that military funding affects occupation speed (though it doesn't change it for me) or that units without a full soldier POP give huge debuffs to the entire army.

And recon can go above 100% now?

 

[cetvrtak]

Okay, rough numbers from a recent game: My army, ~11k strong (of which 3k was artillery) took ~180 days to occupy a province.

With that small an army, I think 180 days was pretty fast. Nonetheless, artillery doesn't reduce the occupation speed.

A 3k-strong enemy inf. Regiment appeared at ~25% and surpassed me at ~70%. No cavalry or recon was involved. If it matters, I was Bolivia an they were Peru, though I was ahead in military tech.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "appeared at 25%". Where did they appear? As for countries and techs, I don't think it has anything to do with your issue.

Other potential causes I can think of are either that military funding affects occupation speed (though it doesn't change it for me) or that units without a full soldier POP give huge debuffs to the entire army.

Not that I know of.

And recon can go above 100% now?

What I meant was, if they had a leader with Clever personality, they would have gotten an extra 25% recon.

Edit: Plus, note that an enemy 3k (single regiment) stack can mean they have 13 regiments (39k men) that were damaged in fight or by attrition to size 3k.

 

[Bunnytob]

When I say "appeared at 25%" I mean that I'd previously deleted (in battle) their entire army, and that one newly-raised brigade (likely from soldier POPs) started occupying territory when my occupation was at 25%, and reached 70% occupation when I was at 70%.
And yeah, 180 days does seem pretty fast... maybe it was 280? Maybe I'm confusing some things, but it definitely happened in a way similar to that.

I think the set of circumstances that would make the most sense is something from this list:
1) A unit gets a bonus to occupation speed when occupying owned and core territory (each bonus is applies separately).
2) A unit that is unable to reinforce at max speed (i.e. lack of soldier POPs) either A) Imparts a penalty to the army (so a 7-brigade army with, say, 5 brigades lacking soldier POPs to reinforce would occupy at 9/14 speed or something) or B) Occupies territory at a speed proportional to how many soldier POPs are left (so a brigade with 500 POPs would occupy at 1/2 speed), or a mixture thereof.
3) A leader's attack or defence skill is somehow involved (The Argentinians at this point had a 6-defence general while I was still running around with Bolivia's starting +1/+1).
4) Small armies and/or nations with small armies get a boost to occupation speed.
5) War Exhaustion affects occupation speed (Wouldn't explain this particular case from Peru's side but I was running around at ~30-40% by this point).
6) Mobilised units occupy slower for some reason (would coincide with reason #2).
7) Military funding actually does affect occupation speed (maybe ramping up to 2x speed at 100% from >90% or something because the AI was definitely at 100% funding).
8) There's something glaringly obvious I'm missing.

 

[cetvrtak]

When I say "appeared at 25%" I mean that I'd previously deleted (in battle) their entire army, and that one newly-raised brigade (likely from soldier POPs) started occupying territory when my occupation was at 25%, and reached 70% occupation when I was at 70%.
And yeah, 180 days does seem pretty fast... maybe it was 280? Maybe I'm confusing some things, but it definitely happened in a way similar to that.

I think the set of circumstances that would make the most sense is something from this list:
1) A unit gets a bonus to occupation speed when occupying owned and core territory (each bonus is applies separately).
2) A unit that is unable to reinforce at max speed (i.e. lack of soldier POPs) either A) Imparts a penalty to the army (so a 7-brigade army with, say, 5 brigades lacking soldier POPs to reinforce would occupy at 9/14 speed or something) or B) Occupies territory at a speed proportional to how many soldier POPs are left (so a brigade with 500 POPs would occupy at 1/2 speed), or a mixture thereof.
3) A leader's attack or defence skill is somehow involved (The Argentinians at this point had a 6-defence general while I was still running around with Bolivia's starting +1/+1).
4) Small armies and/or nations with small armies get a boost to occupation speed.
5) War Exhaustion affects occupation speed (Wouldn't explain this particular case from Peru's side but I was running around at ~30-40% by this point).
6) Mobilised units occupy slower for some reason (would coincide with reason #2).
7) Military funding actually does affect occupation speed (maybe ramping up to 2x speed at 100% from >90% or something because the AI was definitely at 100% funding).
8) There's something glaringly obvious I'm missing.

Something is very wrong there. A single regiment should not be able to overtake you, other than in the wildest scenario.

None of those you listed should be a factor (I'm not 100% sure about #1). I was uncertain about the maintenance slider so I ran a test: reloaded save, reduced maintenance to 50% and finished occupation in the exact same time.

Maybe some screen shots could help to solve the mystery.

 

[Bunnytob]

Right, I'm past the point where I'm occupying slowly and I think I've used all of my Fire Extinguisher allowance for 2021 already, but I'll see if I can dredge up anything from duplicate saves.
(Edit: No luck.)

 

[Bunnytob]

For now I'll just assume I'm overreacting to something...
Come to think of it, I never mentioned province population, and I've spotted something of a correlation in that regard. (Definitely not the sole reason though.)

 

[MannheimCouncil]

It's been a while, but wasn't Nationality of the occupying troops and the province a factor? I think if you attacked someone in their home area, they could occupy their provinces back far faster than you could siege them with all other things being equal. Assuming they used troops with matching nationality, of course. I might be misremembering or thinking of Vicky 1, though.

 

[Bunnytob]

Maybe, but I didn't really notice any difference between occupying territory that was mine and not mine.

I have noticed even more of a correlation between reinforcement rate and occupation speed though, so I think I might have been occupying slower because none of my units had enough soldier POPs to properly reinforce.

 

[Bunnytob]

And also it seems like there's a high element of randomness to it - one Tripoli down, three provinces with proper data:
1 cav + 2 irregulars = 94 days (Sabha)
1 cav + 3 irregulars = 225 days (Gadhamis)
0 cav + 3 irregulars = 128 days (Gharyan)