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Sinbuster

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Hey Lothos and company.

I just finished my first run through of v092.1 as GB (norm/norm) and found a few things of note.

I did some reading on the TRP website as well as this forum and was keen to see if the Japanese and American AI had vastly improved from that offered in vanilla DD(no offense, I know you work on that too Lothos). I was also watching the other theatres for the newly afforded "Realism."

It would of course take some time for Japan and the US to enter the war so in the meantime I enjoyed the added historical events and graphics. Ironically, my game deviated right off the hop with Belgium choosing to remain with the Allies (I remedied that), and Hitler deciding to finish his speech, and subsequently dieing, during the Beer Hall Putsch (a reload for historical sake).

Must say, I enjoyed the Western Campaign. As a whole I have no problems with the combat system. Germany's Blitz campaign was also enough to cause a few gray hairs. Sadly, Germany's u-boat campaign is just plain dismal, and remained so for almost the entirity of the war. I don't know if it's scripted but almost all my convoy losses were via naval bombers. Their excessive use in this role by both Italy and Germany were enough to replicate the War of the Atlantic but did little to add to the realism. Worse yet, naval bombers would sometimes linger beyond the range of my most modern fighters, forcing me to use TAC's or STR's to act as interceptors. As for the u-boats, I faced losses for a few weeks once a year at most.

The African campaigns are so-so once again. Too bad there is no way to remedy the supply issue in Ethiopia as Italians here are essentially a walk-over. In actuality there were close to 300,000 Axis troops (most colonial irregulars) that managed to hold the region until November 1941 (though Addis Ababa was retaken in April). Some form of puppeted state like the Kwantung Army might remedy this. In North Africa the Italians were decidely poor, which I recognize as historical but the Italian AI's ability to reinforce this theatre is often times dreadful. The arrival of the Africa Korps was a nice historical addition but they too were non-responsive.

America's entry into the war was fairly anticlimatic. Aggressive landings in North Africa did not precipate an invasion of Sicily and again GB was forced to lead Husky, and later the invasion of Italy proper.

Meanwhile, in the pacific, Japan more than made up for its ineptness on the continent (never establishing a second - or third - front in Shanghai and the south) by blazing a yellow trail through Indonesia and Burma. My heroic defense of Singapore utterly stalled the offensive to the north so the Burma campaign never happened (apparantly they need Singapore to put pressure on Siam). Regardless, Japan continued to surprise me with attacks on Columbo, Goa, Dubai and Madagascar (can you believe it), as well as a full-scale invasion of Australia. Though the Guadalcanal and Rabul offensives never materialized, who was I too complain. Frankly, that kind of AI is what vanilla DD needs right now. It's not always historical, often reckless, but totally enjoyable.

As for the US, early signs of promise quickly vanished once the usual superstack took form on one of Indonesia's many islands. Only minor offensives in the Philipines and elsewhere followed, and soon two 50 division stacks stared across the jungle at eachother. Once the stack started forming America never had the troops to begin building up for D-Day and again GB was forced to go it alone. Even when I was fighting desperatly in Europe, groups of US troops sat around in North Africa and New Guinea. Over the course of the entire European campaign, the US mounted two measly assualts, one in Marsaille (which I rescued and they never expanded) and another single division effort in Calais. Argh, it was so close to the perfect game.


Here are a few more general observations:

Great job on the improved AI but Italy and the US are two nations that could and should profit from the Japanese amphibious techniques. Somebody take Crete, it's undefended!

Where is the Battle of the Atlantic?

Are you not able to manipulate the hills province modifiers to whatever you choose? All these mountain provinces, though good for directing the AI, aren't particularly realistic.

(This might just be my game) I believe Germany is supposed to face manpower shortages by 1944, yet I was still facing fully reinforced divisions even after 1946. Didn't check their build que so they may have stopped building troops as a result.

Does Japan commonly open a second front in Asia?

Paradox, or somebody, needs to design province divisional limits. Certain regions, like Pacific atolls and North Africa, are simply incapable of holding hundreds of thousands of troops. Sorry, just venting.

The End of WW2 event doesn't work when GB controls Europe. I also get numerous reserve call-up events at strange times (like after the war). I know it's ahistoric for GB to control Europe but if the US wont do it...

Though the invasion AI seems contained to limited distances despite the unlimited naval AI (good job I might add), why is it the US took the massively distant, descently garrisoned Taiwan in 1942 but then didn't attack a very nearby, often unguarded Japan for the next four years?

Leader experience gain for air commanders in charge of interceptors and fighters is dismal. I usually have to assaign them to TAC's to rack up experience but this shouldn't have to be the case.

The Indian manpower events seem to happen fairly regularly (which is historic according to the writing in some) but the manpower increase doesn't seem to fit. I can either build a division, a cost of 15K, or just take the 93K? Sometimes it's only 40K or so but in either case the numbers don't add up.

Free France doesn't seem to have any generals.

US is extremelly slow on the STR and TAC upgrades. I'm always years ahead of them (and so are the Germans). Is this intended as to limit US air power?

Did the Iraq and Syrian war events not occur because the German AI did not force a coup? Nice war in Iran though.

And lastly, to anyone complaining about England's relative lack of power, I entirely agree with Lothos regarding an even further reduction. Being weak initially makes for a hair-raising Battle of Britian. I may have lacked STR's but by late 1944 I had a formidable air force and over 80 land divisions for the aforementioned solo liberation of Europe.

Is is true, is Dumbledore really gay?


Thanks for reading and thanks again for everyone's effort on this mod. If you know the answer to any of my questions, or have evidence to the contrary, please tell.
 

Lothos

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Nice post, the super stacks is something I been trying to come up with a fix for and its just really hard. The issue has to do with the garrison AI trying to ship in more troops and outnumber the enemy 2.0 to 1.0 which is a setting in the AI file. The problem is if you invert the number then the garrison AI will not reinforce so you then get the opposite problem. I am not sure how to fix this one yet but still trying.

Where you playing with the naval beta?
 

Easy-Kill

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Just one quick note on a UK game. I recently restarted my game because the air combat seemed a little odd. This time I decided to concentrate my early building on more aircraft and less on factories and naval. I have a couple of 'things' that I noticed.

Early 1940.
Firstly, I now have 20 interceptors sitting around doing nothing much as Germany didn't seem to build as many TAC/Naval bombers as I thought they would. They are being used, but not as much as they did in the previous game I tried.

>> Would it be sensible to look at the UK's major enemies (Italy and Germany) and have an 'event' once a certain number of TAC/NAV are built/in the build queue informing the UK player that he is likely to require concentration on interceptors, or MR fighters, or long range bombers, and 'adds' the units to the build queue with a slight discount. The same could be true for naval vessels. Call it an 'intelligence brief'. Does what I have described make sense?

Last game I lost about 8 BB/BCs to naval bombers as I just didn't have enough interceptors to go around and even when I did, my fighters couldn't see or disorganize the 8-12 NAV bomber stacks.

Another note I saw was that Denmark joined my alliance and early DOWed Germany just after German DoW on Poland. Germany quickly took Kolding, but I believe in 'role playing' and immediately shipped a 2 div RRF to try and hold the Germans back. Once the line had been held and Battleship/TAC support arrived, I pushed the Germans out of Kolding and back into Kiel, a followup force of 6 infantry+art divisions arrived and I pushed into Germany with the aim of disrupting the airfields and naval institutions of northern Germany.

With the German High seas fleet ejected from Kiel harbor into a battle fleet of 5BBs plus heavy cruiser and escorts waiting for them, the German battle cruisers (4) were destroyed and sunk, along with their heavy cruiser force and a large portion of their destroyer force the battle for the north sea was won in a single engagement. My forces were quickly overwhelmed and withdrew to Malmo (as the Swedes had offered to join my alliance too).

>> the point here is whether I should have been able to do this, had Denmark capi

After several weeks of reorging, I decided to push into Kiel and Hamburg to force the German navy out into the seas where my fleet was blockading the Germans. With the Danes owning Copenhagen, my fleet was allowed to push into the Baltic unmolested and defeat the german battle squadrons with ease. Has this been changed from Vanilla. Yes I know, the AI COULD have sunk my BBs with a followup nav bomber strike, but that was worth the risk.
 

Sinbuster

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I haven't tried out the Naval Beta yet, but I have been keeping watch on the thread for any major updates. Would you say it will remedy many of the common issues people are raising?

Now that I have your ear Lothos, any chance you could comment on some of my other observations?

On a side note: Seeing as I don't know the first thing about scripting, I am curious as to how the AI assesses objectives, particularly the US and Japanese pacific AI? In either case they expand in a somewhat linear fashion (north to south for Japan, east to west for US), yet both often skip steps (US seizing Philipines before the outer islands, Japan striking Australia without first securing Singapore). Does their already exist, or is it feasable to create a priority objective to which the AI will direct overwhelming forces to achieve?

In the case of Japan, something like this appears to be happening. After Pearl Harbour the AI seems intent on securing objectives in only the immediate vicinity (Guam, Hong Kong, Phillipines), after which it directs forces to secure the southern flank (Dutch East Indies), followed by expansion into Burma (so I presume), Australia, New Guinea, and, if it's capable, the Aleutians and India. Trouble is, what starts as fairly decisive thrusts soon turns into a series of random amphibious landings that are not often expanded, and usually abandoned.

Same goes for the US (and I'm sure that garrisoning problem has something to do with it). Priorities for the US navy, though more varied are still essentially the same, though in reverse: secure the main holdings (Hawaii, Midway, etc.), then expand to reclaim/control islands between the US and Australia / New Zealand (Gilbert, Marshal, Solomon Islands, and New Guinea), followed by the liberation of Philipines and a subsequent assualt on either the Dutch East Indies or Japan proper.

Now, is the AI being directed in this manner, or can it be? Can events/calculations fire, reminding the AI to secure an objective immediatly with as many forces as it can muster. Maybe a minor descent hit (0.1 or so) to spur some action. Oh, I still don't control Singapore, I should direct the majority of my navy and military to securing it. Done. Ah, Batvia is in enemy hands, I should....

What this all adds up to, hopefully, is not the uncoordinated capture-abandon or capture-stagnate sequences I see so often, but simple, coordinated assualts on important objectives with overwhelming local naval, air and amphibious forces. If we are lucky, two opposing assaults will occur in the same area (namely Guadalcanal and surroundings), making for a truely historic experience.

Apologies for the long post but describing the process is no simple task it seems. Don't get me wrong, I think the AI is getting boatloads better, I just wonder if it's smoking tree half the time.
 

Lothos

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The AI is given objectives which he then decides on his own which ones he should take. Lots of factor are built into this including how many enemy troops are securing it. If you have 10 divisions in Singapore why should the AI fight you there since other areas are left wide open for the taking.
 

Sinbuster

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I guess you could ask the same thing of the Japanese who faced 85,000 troops there (I actually defended it with 3 divisions). I'd say because it is the most important naval/merchant harbour in the entire region. If I, as the Japanese military, faced 150,000 odd troops defending the city and surroundings, it wouldn't stop me from trying to take it. In fact I would utilize all my military assets to do so, starving and bombing them into submission if need be. Leaving Singapore in Allied hands is strategically impossible if you wish to control/exploit the region. In terms of objectives, all other ones, save perhaps the Philippines, are negligible until Singapore is secured, thus my interest in primary objectives.

I understand how a human player would try to heavly reinforce the besieged defenders throwing off the AI, but I'd like to think they wouldn't get the opportunity with the majority of Japanese fleets/planes protecting the approaches. A few weeks of logistical strikes and interdiction by the Japanese airforce followed by constant land and sea assualts would secure the island just as if a human player were trying to take it. In terms of realism, which I believe you're aiming for, the possibility of protecting far-off Singapore is made close to impossible for the beleagured Royal Navy, and all the more likely for the Japanese.

I don't disagree with your line of thought when it comes to, say, an over-defended Darwin or Rabaul though. Maybe Singapore is just a unique example.

Thanks for answering my AI questions.
 

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Not sure you get the point or not, you are telling how you would do it and I am telling you how the AI calculates where he is going to go. There isn't much you can do to change that.
 

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Oh I get you. I was merely pondering a different type of AI is all.

On a side note, and I mention here because I know you check in regularly, I installed the new naval beta (1.3) and tried a game as Japan (I think the checksum was something funky like AQUW) but by late January 1936 (right around the time you get an event giving a 5 per cent descent hit) the game really gets choppy. I've never experienced that with any DD,vanilla or mod, so I uninstalled and am retrying with normal v092.1.

Should the checksum still be YVGI?


(edit: just played for a bit)...hmm, the lag seems to still be there for Japan, even with the normal version. I just retryed as the UK and no lag whatsoever...
 
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