oathbound paladin champion are the best T3 in the game.

[akinata]

so much that if you ever come to the point of having a stack of them with a flying hero for team buff and T3 mods you can basically autobattle until you win the game since the Ai wont be able to cope with your speed, burst and T3 mods they NEVER use.

seriously, the AI never update their mod loadout. i already ranted about that before the last DLC came out. i am getting bored of late game autowin.

 

[NINJEW]

It amuses me that this is ostensibly a thread about champions but it's actually just an ai complaint thread

 

[akinata]

It amuses me that this is ostensibly a thread about champions but it's actually just an ai complaint thread

thats just me realising as i was writing how strong that unit is when stacked that the main reason why it is so strong is because AI don't build quality troops in late game anyway.
but i do feel that this unit in particular is a bit too strong when paired with T3 mods especially because of its mobility an very long range teleport ability!

maybe that teleport ability may need some range nerf ? like 7 range instead of 9 ? (to be on par with syndicate tank ability to teleport at 7 range.)

 

[MK1980]

the same can be said about pretty much any t3 unit in the game. a full stack of t3 modded with endgame mods will wipe the floor with random t1/t2 AI stacks. that's hardly a unique property of champions.

they are cool, no doubt. but imo also a bit overrated. basically it's a one trick pony with a fancy opening move. that strong frontloaded burst damage is enough to win trivial battles, which makes them very strong against trash stacks. but i think they'd actually struggle against similar tier 3 of other races or NPC factions with similar mod quality. on the second turn it's really just a fairly vulnerable flyer with a 22 base damage single attack that relies on the tirless melee overwatch defense mode to do damage.

 

[Sandman25DCSSS]

the same can be said about pretty much any t3 unit in the game. a full stack of t3 modded with endgame mods will wipe the floor with random t1/t2 AI stacks. that's hardly a unique property of champions.

they are cool, no doubt. but imo also a bit overrated. basically it's a one trick pony with a fancy opening move. that strong frontloaded burst damage is enough to win trivial battles, which makes them very strong against trash stacks. but i think they'd actually struggle against similar tier 3 of other races or NPC factions with similar mod quality. on the second turn it's really just a fairly vulnerable flyer with a 22 base damage single attack that relies on the tirless melee overwatch defense mode to do damage.

Indeed. I built my first champion, equipped it with 3 mods including stun and asked my son to come into my room to see the cool unit in its first fight at promethian landmark (which is full of machines vulnerable to arc). I made the champion jump on top of those machines and prepared to watch the massacre. The massacre happened indeed, they killed my champion on their turn from full HP and in defense mode. That was funny

 

[akinata]

the same can be said about pretty much any t3 unit in the game. a full stack of t3 modded with endgame mods will wipe the floor with random t1/t2 AI stacks. that's hardly a unique property of champions.

they are cool, no doubt. but imo also a bit overrated. basically it's a one trick pony with a fancy opening move. that strong frontloaded burst damage is enough to win trivial battles, which makes them very strong against trash stacks. but i think they'd actually struggle against similar tier 3 of other races or NPC factions with similar mod quality. on the second turn it's really just a fairly vulnerable flyer with a 22 base damage single attack that relies on the tirless melee overwatch defense mode to do damage.

yes, they may get countered by a few T3 units with bonus damage or negative effect agianst flying units. but AI will not have enough of those, let alone stacks of t3 units to deal with this.

i wont try and go into detail for every little engagement. but i think you are aware of the strategical strenght of flying units in the game.
and while they get into battle they get the engagement initiative with high staggering arc damage and melee overwatch.

in a battle of t3 stack with no mod, spell or bonus i bet they will win nearly all engagements. add them oathbound bonus and mods and you ll get undeafetable stacks except by overnumbering them ( or t4 spam if it is even possible).
thats my take on them anyway after mutliple games with them. of course i may need to test that in multiplayer but so far any flying units have been proven to be very strong against other human players because of their mobility.

Indeed. I built my first champion, equipped it with 3 mods including stun and asked my son to come into my room to see the cool unit in its first fight at promethian landmark (which is full of machines vulnerable to arc). I made the champion jump on top of those machines and prepared to watch the massacre. The massacre happened indeed, they killed my champion on their turn from full HP and in defense mode. That was funny

any t4 uint will die if send alone in the middle of enemy troops. some units are excelent at supporting an army alone. other are better massed and start to shine when used en-mass.
paladin champions belong the the last category. weak alone, powerfull in swarm. they are especially usefull against voidbringer thanks to their long range teleport and melee overwatch.

 

[NINJEW]

I'm not so sure a horde of champions would perform super well against an equal number of other t3 units. Still pretty hard to beat malictors for pure value. The flier strategic advantage is very real though.

 

[Ethorin]

actually... what the heck do Dvar do against a Champion Ball? their T3's don't hit air, their dedicated AA flyer is built on the idea that it'll be moving it's full move before hitting to do damage.... What the heck do you do when Champions effectively START next to your Ramjets. Are you just relying on Bulwarks and Trenchers?

If you are... uhhhh.... good luck I guess.

 

[NINJEW]

I mean barons can still hit them? Relying on bulwarks and trenchers is also actually never a bad idea

Oathbound in general fucks dvar up pretty bad though. And honestly good shit

 

[Ethorin]

I mean barons can still hit them? Relying on bulwarks and trenchers is also actually never a bad idea

Oathbound in general fucks dvar up pretty bad though. And honestly good shit

Normally sure... But every game I've been making Champion's in they have more than 10 armor before mods. Baron's have a worse gun than Bulwarks(less accuracy, otherwise identical)... and when Residential's are working they make it a lot more practical to expect to grab two+ relevant landmarks/sites...

I honestly have no idea how a Dvar player deals with a Champion Ball without drowning them in bodies.

 

[NINJEW]

They have the same accuracy, the only difference is barons have high impact attached. Firearms mods are also pretty dang good. It doesnt look great for dvar but fireburst barons probably have a decent chance.

Like the only situation where I'd advocate building barons too

 

[Evil_Fishy]

Judging by the combat card, the dvar baron's disruptor device can hit air units, which could be a kick in the head if the champion player clumps too hard.

 

[Draxynnic]

I was curious, so I ran some 6v6 autoresolve tests:

Barons come pretty close, considering that the AI is bad at using Barons. (killed three of them, rest were damaged)
Vanguard Walkers beat them (with three casualties, IIRC).
Disassemblers lost, but killed four of them
Avatars ate them alive (no Avatars lost, a couple on half health though).
Tyrannodons lost, but killed four, and nearly killed a fifth.
Refractors lost, but probably the closest match: only one Champion survived, and that on low health.
Rift Generators won with 4 casualties.

Couldn't test High Lords due to the save I was using, but I'm pretty sure they'd lose - the AI is bad with them.

 

[Evil_Fishy]

Gotta try bombardons! How are you doing the autobattles?

 

[Draxynnic]

Bombardons did worse than Tyrannodons and Disassemblers (probably because the latter have an anti-air trait, more health, and more of their defences being in armour rather than shields). Broadly speaking, anything I didn't list either lost, or I didn't try because it seemed obvious to me that they would lose.

The approach is setting up a save with an eight-player hotseat game (one player for each race), getting them all up to the point of having the tier 3's, and then throwing them at each other. You can then use the 'watch battle' option to see what actually happened, although I only did so with the refractor fight because it WAS so close and I was curious why.