Nur ad-Din vs Saladin

[sleeperul]

For an while I believed that Saladin was the reason Jerusalem fell and most of the crusader states with it but then I read about Nur ad_Din the power behind the power the reason Saladin even became somebody and he was was one badass ruler beating the crusader states the ERE like there is no tomorrow.
So I wondered if these 2 would have meet on the field of battle in an war who would have won? Also could Nur ad-Din have accomplished as much as Saladin if he lived longer?

 

[Geriander]

Would Nur ad-Din have accomplished as much if he didn’t have the service of Saladin? The unification of all muslim neighbours to the crusader states was the decisive factor in eventually beating them back so in that sense the heavy lifting was done under Nur ad-Din. Saladin played an important role in those conquests though.

 

[sleeperul]

Would Nur ad-Din have accomplished as much if he didn’t have the service of Saladin? The unification of all muslim neighbours to the crusader states was the decisive factor in eventually beating them back so in that sense the heavy lifting was done under Nur ad-Din. Saladin played an important role in those conquests though.

Oh do not get me wrong I know Saladin was not useful for Nur ad-Din actually he was an threat he wanted to deal with but died before he could try. But what if he did not could he have defeated Saladin and mostly destroy the crusader states and defeat the third crusade?

 

[IsadorBG]

Would Nur ad-Din have accomplished as much if he didn’t have the service of Saladin? The unification of all muslim neighbours to the crusader states was the decisive factor in eventually beating them back so in that sense the heavy lifting was done under Nur ad-Din. Saladin played an important role in those conquests though.

Yes definetly.

Saladin really did nothing of note in creating that huge state in the levant that would eventually destroy the Crusader states. Not wanting to denigrate too much that lucky bastard of Saladin as he was a good ruler but all the work in this is attributable to other people chiefly Nur Ad-Din and his father Al-Zinki.

I made a post a long time ago about how unbelievably lucky that ass was. But I am too lazy to search it for now.

 

[Geriander]

Yes definetly.

Saladin really did nothing of note in creating that huge state in the levant that would eventually destroy the Crusader states. Not wanting to denigrate too much that lucky bastard of Saladin as he was a good ruler but all the work in this is attributable to other people chiefly Nur Ad-Din and his father Al-Zinki.

I made a post a long time ago about how unbelievably lucky that ass was. But I am too lazy to search it for now.

Saladin did add the important province of Egypt.

 

[IsadorBG]

Saladin did add the important province of Egypt.

No he did not. Nur ad-Din did by sending his armies there to conquer the provinces. They were led by the uncle of Saladin Shirkuh .

Saladin was a simple officer in that campaign and he didn't even desired to go there and had to be forced by his superior and uncle.

He was however the man who benefited the most of this conquest.

 

[Geriander]

No he did not. Nur ad-Din did by sending his armies there to conquer the provinces. They were led by the uncle of Saladin Shirkuh .

Saladin was a simple officer in that campaign and he didn't even desired to go there and had to be forced by his superior and uncle.

He was however the man who benefited the most of this conquest.

Nur ad-Din’s control of Egypt appears very nominal. Shirkuh was a vassal of Nur ad Din but also a Vizier for the Fatamids. The fact that Saladin could defy Nur ad-Din shiws how little real control the latter had in Egypt.

 

[IsadorBG]

Nur ad-Din’s control of Egypt appears very nominal. Shirkuh was a vassal of Nur ad Din but also a Vizier for the Fatamids. The fact that Saladin could defy Nur ad-Din shiws how little real control the latter had in Egypt.

That's true. That why Nur ad-Din was about to invade Egypt to kick Saladin's ass when he died suddenly sparing Saladin a war he was not certain to win and also gaining the Levant at the same time as Nur ad-Din left a sick children as heir and Saladin did not let the opportunity pass to expand with little effort.

 

[Tufto]

Meh, Baybars was more important than either. There's a reason he was the one lionised in the Islamic world before Europeans started bleating about Saladin all the time.

 

[sleeperul]

That's true. That why Nur ad-Din was about to invade Egypt to kick Saladin's ass when he died suddenly sparing Saladin a war he was not certain to win and also gaining the Levant at the same time as Nur ad-Din left a sick children as heir and Saladin did not let the opportunity pass to expand with little effort.

Who would have won if Nur ad-Din did not die then and could he have almost destroy the crusader states also Nu ad-Din?

 

[Geriander]

Meh, Baybars was more important than either. There's a reason he was the one lionised in the Islamic world before Europeans started bleating about Saladin all the time.

More important for what? For beating back the Mongols? Yes. For beating back the Crusades? They were doomed at that point. Once Syria and Egyp were united against the Crusader States, it was only a matter of time.