NPC Factions (Spacers, Grwoth, Paragon) are a little too strong

[DarkDiice]

So me and a Friend bought the game as soon as it came out and started playing. Over the last couple days weve been playing it and are currently at Turn 134. For me its the first time playing a Age of Wonders game, on the other hand my friend played earlier titles.
But after playing in this Game, ive noticed that the npc Factions (especially spacers in our game) are quite strong. I mean, normally you dont have alot problems with them but as soon as they come up with their demands and you dont have the resources, they wage war (if youre still at 0). And here comes the part where i think they're a little too strong. After the war went on a little, they sent an army to attack. While on my End all of my armies combined are about 2500 Power, they come with about 4500.
I can see that one needs to use the Towns and bases as a way of dealing with them, but even then its still 3700 vs. 4500.

So the question would be: is it just me who thinks this as a new player or have others noticed too. And what would be the best course of action to do against them (besides paying them for peace and/or accepting their demands). Mostly i cant even do missions or get new Sectors cause of the threat of an army coming.

 

[Scottgun]

You are engaging them with multiple armies, right? I ask because I was watching someone's playthrough and it was clear he was unaware or didn't understand the adjacent hex rule of combat.

Edit: Never mind. I see you said combined armies.

 

[Lord of Riva]

This is most likely a scaling issue.

The Factions continually increase their strength and you are pretty far into the game. In AoW 3 i've seen Raifing parties with 3 Stacks full of Dragons (Tier IV) as well in the extremely long games.

Maybe they should introduce a maximum there?

 

[Zaskow]

In my game demands of NPC faction are insignificant (difficulty - hard). Usually they demands around 40-60 energy which is pretty cheap.

 

[Jolly Joker]

2500 power for your combined armies on turn 134 is nothing. Keep in mind that in AoW battles are a real option from day 1 on. It's not a game where you want to put army building off until you have researched the juicy bits.
I'm at turn 25 in my current game, with not the easiest settings and slow game, but my combined army strength is at 2100 - and that's just two stacks, none of which containing a T3 or T4 yet. It's no strength I feel content with in the slightest, not even at this stage.
So, no, they are not too strong, you are too weak - WAY too weak.

 

[Truewhit]

2500 power for your combined armies on turn 134 is nothing. Keep in mind that in AoW battles are a real option from day 1 on. It's not a game where you want to put army building off until you have researched the juicy bits.
I'm at turn 25 in my current game, with not the easiest settings and slow game, but my combined army strength is at 2100 - and that's just two stacks, none of which containing a T3 or T4 yet. It's no strength I feel content with in the slightest, not even at this stage.
So, no, they are not too strong, you are too weak - WAY too weak.

Yeah it's easy to get distracted with buildings.

 

[Jean-Luc]

Turn 134 is really, really late, you should be super powerful by then with multiple fully modded armies, op heroes and an economy that makes most expenses trivial.

It is true though that NPCs scale into the late game better than most AI players which can make one complacent but it's the AI players that need a (late game) buff imo.

In any case the "world threat" setting can adjust the power of NPCs and you can always make peace with them, even after they spawn their attack groups though it can expensive depending on how much you've bloodied them.

 

[nosepose9x]

Yeah you just haven't fit yourself into the pacing of the game yet - you should have stronger armies by then and you should've just conquered their dwelling before they got too strong. On your next scenario you probably won't have as much of a problem.

Age of Wonders 3 was like this with marauder spawners - in my very first game I eliminated an enemy AI only to suddenly have a chain of marauder tier 3s and 4s come out of nowhere and stomp me out of the game while my army was occupied rounding up the spoils of war. I thought I was doing well, but now I see I was a dead-emperor-walking because I should've found and eliminated those spawners much earlier or at least not sent all my best units halfway across the map for a solid 15 turns.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Yeah it's easy to get distracted with buildings.

It's really easy to get distracted by units too. I've seen three really big pitfalls for players so far in the game:

• Not grabbing new cities. You really really really need to get up to 3-4 cities before turn 30 ish. If you can't find time to expand either with colonizers, war, or buying settlements, you are going to be constantly starved of energy and won't find time for anything soon. Try to plan on building a colonizer around turn 10 if you can and buying a new settlement should probably be the first thing you spend influence on.
• Prioritizing unit unlock technologies. These really aren't all that good compared to unit mod technologies. You have to jump through a lot of hoops and spend a lot of resources to add a new unit to your armies, while mods can be added straight away if you have the resources. High tier unmodded units aren't even that much stronger than low tier modded ones, unless they're in a supporting role you can really use.
• Ignoring their army. A good ballpark is to be spending half of your city production time on military units. Do not delay building your armies or wait too long for special upgrade buildings. You need to spend your energy on military units, this game is mainly about the military.

 

[Lord Lambert]

all of my armies combined are about 2500 Power

In turn 134 that's really quite small.

 

[Ethorin]

that's two lightly modded stacks of t1-2's

 

[Scottgun]

Not grabbing new cities. You really really really need to get up to 3-4 cities before turn 30 ish. If you can't find time to expand either with colonizers, war, or buying settlements, you are going to be constantly starved of energy and won't find time for anything soon. Try to plan on building a colonizer around turn 10 if you can and buying a new settlement should probably be the first thing you spend influence on.

Thanks. I was looking for advice on expansion pacing. What about spacing? How obsessive should one be about spacing colonies so they don't trip on each other's annexation, or is it more of a beggars can't choosers situation?

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Thanks. I was looking for advice on expansion pacing. What about spacing? How obsessive should one be about spacing colonies so they don't trip on each other's annexation, or is it more of a beggars can't choosers situation?

I haven't played enough games to say for sure what the strategy should be for that yet. However, just the base energy production you get from cities is mostly what you need to keep yourself going. So while I think it makes sense to try and prioritize cities in places with the best resources and landmarks, you should never delay getting cities. It's more a matter of where you spread to first, since you're going to fill in all the space around your capital eventually. Cities can't be within one sector of one another and will ultimately take up 5 sectors, so you pretty much will always have space for annexations no matter how dense the cities are.

 

[square0]

Thanks. I was looking for advice on expansion pacing. What about spacing? How obsessive should one be about spacing colonies so they don't trip on each other's annexation, or is it more of a beggars can't choosers situation?

If a colony has a border in range, they can take a sector from another colony. You only really have to plan around water.

 

[n3ctaris]

It's really easy to get distracted by units too. I've seen three really big pitfalls for players so far in the game:

• Not grabbing new cities. You really really really need to get up to 3-4 cities before turn 30 ish. If you can't find time to expand either with colonizers, war, or buying settlements, you are going to be constantly starved of energy and won't find time for anything soon. Try to plan on building a colonizer around turn 10 if you can and buying a new settlement should probably be the first thing you spend influence on.
• Prioritizing unit unlock technologies. These really aren't all that good compared to unit mod technologies. You have to jump through a lot of hoops and spend a lot of resources to add a new unit to your armies, while mods can be added straight away if you have the resources. High tier unmodded units aren't even that much stronger than low tier modded ones, unless they're in a supporting role you can really use.
• Ignoring their army. A good ballpark is to be spending half of your city production time on military units. Do not delay building your armies or wait too long for special upgrade buildings. You need to spend your energy on military units, this game is mainly about the military.

Totally agree with these points... I had to restart my first game because I was at turn 30 with 1 city, and just not able to get out of the energy hole. In another I had several fully upgraded cities but only 2 stacks on the map and unable to keep up with all the 'stuff' going on all over my empire.

I would add to that last point that you should have 3-4 fully functional stacks (able to fight battles on their own) by turn 30 as well.

So, no, they are not too strong, you are too weak - WAY too weak.

Totally agree with this statement, I am only focused on the campaign right now and at turn 37 I have a combined army power of 3500 on 4 stacks with 4 heroes... I cant imagine what an army would look like at turn 130+!

 

[Ethorin]

I like Water, especially with the upgrades, any non production city that I want to focus harder gets a water if possible... production cities with a water are best ports so want that as well...

continent maps are fun.

 

[Devanor]

In my game demands of NPC faction are insignificant (difficulty - hard). Usually they demands around 40-60 energy which is pretty cheap.

Meanwhile, I just want to be left alone yet all NPC factions demand 400+ energy, 120+ cosmite or a region for "staying friends" or "for helping their enemy"

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Meanwhile, I just want to be left alone yet all NPC factions demand 400+ energy, 120+ cosmite or a region for "staying friends" or "for helping their enemy"

They can make a demand if you complete a quest for another NPC faction or take a sector adjacent to one of their dwellings. If you want them to leave you alone, decline all the quests and stay away from their dwellings.

 

[Devanor]

They can make a demand if you complete a quest for another NPC faction or take a sector adjacent to one of their dwellings. If you want them to leave you alone, decline all the quests and stay away from their dwellings.

I did, yet a Spacer just now wanted energy for "staying friends", despite the fact that I've declined all quests.

 

[Tombles]

There is actually a setting you can choose that weakens or switches off invasions from NPC factions. We added it because we thought people who player competitive PvP might get annoyed by sudden NPC invaaions messing with the balance of who won.

If you go into advanced world settings, I think it's under Game Flow when you set up the game.