NPC Demense Limit

[unmerged(192917)]

I'm nibbling away at the pagans of Scandinavia, so I have lots of currently worthless counties to hand out. I've been giving them to my six-year-old son and heir. I figure that when he takes the throne he'll have a lower demense limit than mine, so he can give out the extra counties and get relationship boosts as needed to survive his first few years.

But now I'm wondering what happens if I give him too many of these worthless pagan counties. Does he have a demense limit, too? If so, how do I view it, and what happens if he exceeds it?

 

[riknap]

..."npc"? what is this, an rpg? o_0


kidding aside, all characters play by the same rules if you're playing in normal difficulty (while true rpg-NPCs are immortal and omniscient ). So if you're aware of how demense limit is calculated, you can easily determine his exact limit.
Taking vanilla (ie. unmodded) Ck2 for example, a higher rank a higher base limit. Stewardship also proportionally increases this, as does the legalism tech level of the capital of the character in question. Or, in your case, the regent of the minor in question
Since you're giving him to a six-year old, ie. underage, then look at the stats of his regent to have a rough guess. If it's relatively low, then a handful of counties. If it's rather high (20s), then probably around 8 plus minus 3?

It'll be irrelevant for a long time, however. It takes a decade or so before counties obtained from different religions and culture by conquest become even useful. So he won't be earning anything from them maybe even some time after he came of age.

 

[Lessing]

Go to your son's portrait, click his primary title, hover mouse over his demesne income (in the list below the title details), and youll see his demesne limit.

 

[nyah]

If you give him more counties than his demense limit and he has a duchy title then he will dish out the extra counties.

It's generally not a good idea to land an underage son, mostly because then you lose control of their education, meaning that they could get some undesirable traits, change culture or religion, and also because you lose control of who they marry and rather than being able marry them to somebody that will get you a good succession or at least a high-stat wife, you'll end up with a wrong cultured indulgent wastrel, with wroth and craven traits, married to some hunchbacked idiot from the other end of europe.

 

[Lessing]

It's generally not a good idea to land an underage son, mostly because then you lose control of their education

I think if you're already educating him, he stays in your court and you stay his guardian.

 

[icon41gimp]

You don't lose the ability to educate your son as long as he is within your realm.

 

[nyah]

You don't lose the ability to educate your son as long as he is within your realm.

You can offer to educate him, but he could refuse your offer or accept an offer from somebody else. He could also make the decision to change his educator. If a character is landed and underage then he can choose his own educator.

 

[Dragula]

..."npc"? what is this, an rpg? o_0

Yes.

(while true rpg-NPCs are immortal and omniscient )

No.

 

[DC123456789]

You can offer to educate him, but he could refuse your offer or accept an offer from somebody else. He could also make the decision to change his educator. If a character is landed and underage then he can choose his own educator.

I think children always accepted being educated by a parent ("++++ is parent" modifier).

 

[Fishy101]

You can offer to educate him, but he could refuse your offer or accept an offer from somebody else. He could also make the decision to change his educator. If a character is landed and underage then he can choose his own educator.

You can always give him a gift if he refuses your offer. I think if he has a 20+ or 25+ opinion, he will accept the offer.

 

[Fishy101]

If you give him more counties than his demense limit and he has a duchy title then he will dish out the extra counties.

It's generally not a good idea to land an underage son, mostly because then you lose control of their education, meaning that they could get some undesirable traits, change culture or religion, and also because you lose control of who they marry and rather than being able marry them to somebody that will get you a good succession or at least a high-stat wife, you'll end up with a wrong cultured indulgent wastrel, with wroth and craven traits, married to some hunchbacked idiot from the other end of europe.

He will dish out the titles if he exceed his demesnes limit regardless of whether he is a duke or not. If he is a count, the new counts will become your vassals.

 

[unmerged(192917)]

The prince already agreed to let me educate him, but I didn't think about the marriage problem. That's far too serious a decision to leave to a boy who's just come of age. Can I fix it by becoming duke over one of his counties? There are several duchies that I could create.

 

[Julyan]

..."npc"? what is this, an rpg? o_0

NPC means non-player character and most games have them. Seeing as how CK2 is a game revolving around characters and you as a player play one character at a time, it's very accurate to call the other characters NPCs.

 

[Fishy101]

The prince already agreed to let me educate him, but I didn't think about the marriage problem. That's far too serious a decision to leave to a boy who's just come of age. Can I fix it by becoming duke over one of his counties? There are several duchies that I could create.

There is really nothing you can do about choosing his spouse if you land him. You can play the game as your heir and save then load and play as yourself again.

 

[Hastings1066]

There is really nothing you can do about choosing his spouse if you land him. You can play the game as your heir and save then load and play as yourself again.

He can however offer a betrothal between one of his own courtiers and his son, which he might accept, or wait till he's 16 and offer a marriage between a courtier and the son. The son should accept if the potential bride is not to old, and has decent stats and traits. The son might refuse though on the grounds of wanting a better alliance, if she's unimportant.

 

[User4035]

You can betroth him to someone before you Land him. I don't think I've seen the AI break a betrothal yet - probably have to loose titles for that to happen.
If your betrothing to just keep him open and plan to break the betrothal later then pick some noble family that is very far away.

If you can arrange a desirable betrothal then its also worth trying to educate the bride yourself so you can make her the best wife possible.

 

[theStormWeaver]

You can betroth him to someone before you Land him. I don't think I've seen the AI break a betrothal yet - probably have to loose titles for that to happen.
If your betrothing to just keep him open and plan to break the betrothal later then pick some noble family that is very far away.

If you can arrange a desirable betrothal then its also worth trying to educate the bride yourself so you can make her the best wife possible.

I've seen the AI break betrothals, sorta. I had arranged for my daughter to marry the heir of the Duchess of Flanders matrillineally, but I died before they both came of age and my grandson inherited (stupid Agnatic-Cognatic Primogeniture algorithms...). My daughter-turned-aunt was now a nobody (despite my dynastic prestige being six times hers) and the duchess refused the marriage, instead offering a normal marriage. Of course I waited it out until she dropped it and I could send her off somewhere else.

 

[unmerged(192917)]

There is really nothing you can do about choosing his spouse if you land him. You can play the game as your heir and save then load and play as yourself again.

I have two ideas on how to fix my mistake:

1) Once he reaches majority and before he marries, I'll put myself on the front line of battle and hope to catch an arrow.

2) If he marries before I die and he has already married, then I can try to have her killed.

 

[nyah]

The prince already agreed to let me educate him, but I didn't think about the marriage problem. That's far too serious a decision to leave to a boy who's just come of age. Can I fix it by becoming duke over one of his counties? There are several duchies that I could create.

If he's landed then he will always make the decision himself. Probably the best thing to do would be to try to get a suitable female in your court and arrange the marriage between them before he does it himself.

Actually a bigger issue is what happens if the inheritance takes a long time (ie your current king stays alive). The heir will probably have children himself. If he dies then they will inherit his lands, but if you have more than one son then one of them will become heir (depending on your succession law). This means that all the land you gave to your heir because you expected to get it back into your direct control will end up in the hands of a powerful man who has a claim on your throne. You can never be sure who will live and who will die.

 

[riknap]

NPC means non-player character and most games have them. Seeing as how CK2 is a game revolving around characters and you as a player play one character at a time, it's very accurate to call the other characters NPCs.

I get the feeling there should be sarcasm tooltips in every forum.

besides, if you want to argue semantics, CK2 is primarily a sandbox strategy game with role-playing elements, just like King Arthur is primarily a linear RTS with role-playing elements. The RPG genre focuses on the overarching story. And besides, you can play any character in the game, which pretty much contradicts what "non-playable character" means

on another note, I never knew about the tooltip about demesne info until this thread :laugh:

still, back on topic. It really depends on how you want to play this game.
If you want to power-game it, then you could always load as your heir to arrange marriage, then reload back. Or, you know, give your heir all your titles except one, then reload as him.
If you want to role-play, there's nothing you can do with a marriage made out of love... or lust. Just make some story in your head to explain why your heir married that inbred huncback dwarf courtier

If he's landed then he will always make the decision himself. Probably the best thing to do would be to try to get a suitable female in your court and arrange the marriage between them before he does it himself.

Actually a bigger issue is what happens if the inheritance takes a long time (ie your current king stays alive). The heir will probably have children himself. If he dies then they will inherit his lands, but if you have more than one son then one of them will become heir (depending on your succession law). This means that all the land you gave to your heir because you expected to get it back into your direct control will end up in the hands of a powerful man who has a claim on your throne. You can never be sure who will live and who will die.

I depends on your inheritance laws anyway. If it's primogeniture, then you're pretty much guaranteed to eventually get back that land in one generation or another, unless he assigned a vassal to it (ie. he can have vassals and he went over his demesne limit, which means he'll definitely give land away).