Now we are getting some empire personality added to the game, how amout galactic personality next?

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jjjdddsss

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I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way about this game, but it really suffers from a lack of narrative beyond expansion into the galaxy. This is completely understandable compared to the rest of the Paradox library but I still think the game suffers for it.

In EU4 for example every nation comes with its own narrative, it has its place in the world, and more importantly the world itself has personality. A lot of this comes from the historical setting, France is the big bully in Europe, Austria is struggling to control the HRE, Portugal is ignoring Europe and colonising. The asymmetrical start, combined with the historical setting, means you have a natural progression of enemies and emotional investment in what's going on built in. If I'm Brandenburg I know that Poland will be an ally but long term will be a major foe and I will need alliances to overcome them for example.

Now we come to Stellaris, the random starts are a great idea in my opinion, but combined with the random empires and so on you don't have any sense of who is who, nor any emotional investment in the galaxy or its politics. As such all of this must come after you click start game, and I think this is key, as it stands we are getting mechanics that should massively increase the investment in your own empire but nothing on the galactic diplomacy scale. In my opinion we need to have a connection to, and understanding of, not just our empire but all the other major ones, this is what EU4 has that Stellaris doesn't.

I have some thoughts on how to help improve this aspect of the game, and my major idea is events. Events obviously are a major part of these games and I think they can be used here, empires in this game actually do have a good amount of personality, but your exposure to it is limited to you checking ethics manually and remembering everyone, or simply seeing who declares war. As such I think events that expose you to the ethics of nearby empires and more distant major empires to effectively force you to learn the personalities of each.

Events could be something like if a xenophobe empire invades someone all nearby empires (importantly the player) get events about refugees which they accept or refuse based on ethics and personality. This would of course draw the players attention to the xenophobe empire and help build the galactic narrative, in a sense making them a villain, potentially long before you would pay attention to them currently. Tension building and narrative building events such as this would help give each game and galaxy much more personality.

My other idea is a great powers system such as what we see in V2 and EU4, any empire sufficiently powerful would be a great power and get some extra diplomatic features, perhaps a tributary mechanic (dependant on ethics of course). More importantly they could have more events and events that you would get from further away. I like this as obviously you wouldn't want events from a tiny 2 system empire on the other side of the galaxy, but civil war in the a huge power should give events to everyone (maybe people could pick a side). Basically the game should give benefits to being a great power but also make you everybody's business. The benefit here being that the big players on the galactic stage would get more player exposure as I don't think you could realistically be expected to learn about every empire every game.

I think it's important that any events under this system have gameplay impact rather than being fluff pieces as people skip fluff (so refugees give you alien pops if you accept them for example).
 

BlackUmbrellas

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Events could be something like if a xenophobe empire invades someone all nearby empires (importantly the player) get events about refugees which they accept or refuse based on ethics and personality.
Accepting or refusing refugees from purges and slavery is an automatic function which you define on a per-species basis through the Policies tab, as of 1.5.

Personally, I think a big way to improve the "character" of the galaxy as a whole would be space-terrain. Maps are too uniform and homogeneous.
 

jjjdddsss

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Accepting or refusing refugees from purges and slavery is an automatic function which you define on a per-species basis through the Policies tab, as of 1.5.

Personally, I think a big way to improve the "character" of the galaxy as a whole would be space-terrain. Maps are too uniform and homogeneous.
That's a prefect example then, I should have my attention drawn to it when it happens and allowed to make a decision based on the circumstance, maybe even have it upset the conquering empire if you accept them. Let me role play my empire, not tick a box and ignore it.
 

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I personally think that in order for empires to feel "unique", there should be more control over how your planets look like. What exactly, im not sure, but some kind of way to make planets not look the same every time would be great. Earth and I think Unity, as far as i can tell, seems to be the unique planets for any empire.
 

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That's a prefect example then, I should have my attention drawn to it when it happens and allowed to make a decision based on the circumstance, maybe even have it upset the conquering empire if you accept them. Let me role play my empire, not tick a box and ignore it.
If I know exactly what my plan is going to be, why should I have to faff about with events instead of just being able to tick a box?
 

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If I know exactly what my plan is going to be, why should I have to faff about with events instead of just being able to tick a box?
why should you faff around with selecting a species portrait when i can just check a box? I have the portrait in my head! Why should you faff around with selecting a planet to move your ships to when you can just check a box that says "Kill enemy"? I can imagine what will happen! Do you see the problem with your statement here?
 

BlackUmbrellas

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why should you faff around with selecting a species portrait when i can just check a box? I have the portrait in my head! Why should you faff around with selecting a planet to move your ships to when you can just check a box that says "Kill enemy"? I can imagine what will happen! Do you see the problem with your statement here?
How many times do you expect to find that event interesting?

Because lots of empires purge, or have slaves. And every time they do, there's going to be refugees now. Sometimes those refugees settle planets of their own, sometimes they make their way to friendly empires. Having what you do with refugees be a Policy option instead of an event means you get dragged out of what you're doing less.
 

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How many times do you expect to find that event interesting?

Because lots of empires purge, or have slaves. And every time they do, there's going to be refugees now. Sometimes those refugees settle planets of their own, sometimes they make their way to friendly empires. Having what you do with refugees be a Policy option instead of an event means you get dragged out of what you're doing less.
Ok. I dont mind any of that. What are you trying to get across? I personally think it should be a policy so you dont get a new event pop up every single time refugees need saving. I dont mind that. what does that have to do with my post? Assuming you are trying to say I wont find selecting portraits and moving my ships interesting for long, I will personally find selecting portraits for my empire interesting as long as I have more lore to give em, more portraits to select from, and/or more traits to choose. And why would you find clicking on a checkbox to send a ship somewhere interesting at all?
 

BlackUmbrellas

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Ok. I dont mind any of that. What are you trying to get across? I personally think it should be a policy so you dont get a new event pop up every single time refugees need saving. I dont mind that. what does that have to do with my post? Assuming you are trying to say I wont find selecting portraits and moving my ships interesting for long, I will personally find selecting portraits for my empire interesting as long as I have more lore to give em, more portraits to select from, and/or more traits to choose. And why would you find clicking on a checkbox to send a ship somewhere interesting at all?
The quote I took from you implies that you don't agree with refugees being dealt with through Policies. You're taking issue with someone going "Why would I want to have to deal with an event chain every time someone sends some refugees my way, I already know what my empire wants to do with refugees".
 

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The quote I took from you implies that you don't agree with refugees being dealt with through Policies. You're taking issue with someone going "Why would I want to have to deal with an event chain every time someone sends some refugees my way, I already know what my empire wants to do with refugees".
That didnt seem to be what he was arguing with. Seemed to me he was arguing about having more control over things to add an element of roleplay
 

BlackUmbrellas

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That didnt seem to be what he was arguing with. Seemed to me he was arguing about having more control over things to add an element of roleplay
>> OP mentions refugee crises being something that could be an event chain
>> I point out that the refugee mechanic in 1.5 is integrated into the rest of the mechanics and works through Policies
>> OP says that's bad
>> Grommile voices opinion that they don't want to have to engage with an event chain for every refugee event, they want to be able to set up how their empire deals with them and then let it deal with them on its own (what Policies allow)

And then you came in arguing against Grommile- hence, you're coming across as arguing against refugee stuff being handled through Policies.
 

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>> OP mentions refugee crises being something that could be an event chain
>> I point out that the refugee mechanic in 1.5 is integrated into the rest of the mechanics and works through Policies
>> OP says that's bad
>> Grommile voices opinion that they don't want to have to engage with an event chain for every refugee event, they want to be able to set up how their empire deals with them and then let it deal with them on its own (what Policies allow)

And then you came in arguing against Grommile- hence, you're coming across as arguing against refugee stuff being handled through Policies.
Well im sorry i misinterpreted that.
 

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That's a prefect example then, I should have my attention drawn to it when it happens and allowed to make a decision based on the circumstance, maybe even have it upset the conquering empire if you accept them. Let me role play my empire, not tick a box and ignore it.

Don't need an event. Just need a alert that says "Evil Empire is displacing floating gas bags, gas bags looking for new home." with a click-through to species rights and enough time between alert and pops actually moving to decide whether you want them or not.

Which you can decide on a species-by-species basis, because you can set it so you only accept refugees whose species has citizenship in your empire. Want them to come? make them citizens.
 

AmpsterMan

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I dunno, i find the system to encourage a bit of RP and lorebuilding already. In my current game, I have joined a feferation with other Fanatic Individualist Empires. I'm Xenophile, one is spiritualist, the other militant, and another peaceful. We disagree on many things, but we have bound ourselves in mutual support of egalitatian rights and rule of law.

By contrast, other empires that are more autocratic have made their own Federation. It seems that the galaxy may get involved in a war soon because of conflicting points of view. I can't wait to see what happens!
 

Azhcristokos

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Paradox games can almost always be improved with more events since they are a huge portion of what drives all their games, Stellaris included.

However, high frequency, repetitive events quickly become an annoyance. I definitely stop reading them after the hundredth (literally hundredth) time. New events added should be significant, start questlines, or integrate with new mechanics. A few refugee events would be fine if they only occurred when you were accepting refugees and did not spam you nonstop; the options are not mutually exclusive.

It'd be cool if other empires losing pops got mad at you for accepting their refugees, perhaps demanding you change your policies or return some of the refugees. You would have to open those options to the player though.
 

HrPeanut

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While I agree that the galaxy needs more personality I don't think EU4 is a good game to use as an example. The reason for this is that EU4 has an asymmetrical start and Stellaris have a symmetrical start.

I believe that part of the solution is to have each country strive to achieve some kind of dominance in their local region and when they become large, dominance in the galaxy. Countries should be able to intervene in other countries if they have a strategic interest in that region. E.g. xenophiles should be able to put pressure on countries who purge species.

One mechanic I would like to see implemented is crisises like vic2 but not limited to great powers. When minorities/factions want to secede they will generate tension. If a country has interest in the the region they could support the rebels and this could start a crisis. At first only local powers would be informed and asked to take a stance. But if a galactic super power intervenes the other major powers should be asked to take a stance.

Regarding refugees I believe we should have a policy option as our overall policy. But even though a country does not accept refugees it should not be shielded from them. Refugees can still arrive, but this could cause your people to require that you take action to secure the homeland of the refugees. This could start a crisis.
 

Milten

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My other idea is a great powers system
This part might be interesting, the rest - not so much, because it's already gonna be covered by actual mechanics instead of events.
I think the best way to add personality to empires is through diplomacy right now. Xenophobic outcasts dealing with their increasing awareness about their atrocities, civil wars in federations, "historical" friends and foes, and all that.
What is more lacking in my opinion is species uniqueness. They all have different traits, yes, but in the end it's insignificant on empire scale.
 

Cat Crusade

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I'd suggest taking inspiration from real world international relations theories for inspiration. Don't want to get into a lenghty description of what they are (for those interested the following suggestions are based on theories of Kenneth Waltz and Alexander Wendt), but would like to focus instead into how they can be translated into the game:


-A diplomatic system making distinction on basis of relative power between nations. Make a distinction between regular states, powers (regional top power and its equal(s) if any are present ) and superpowers (galactic top power and its equal(s) if any are present). The status of being one of these should alter diplomacy towards them, a small state might have no business dealing with a far away regional power, but always is interested in relations with galactic superpower. Superpowers should pretty much always have at least a rivalry if not outright animosity and so on.

-Being a superpower should provide added ability to influence those of lesser status (more willing to accept trades, increased value of trust from the smaller AI) BUT come with the drawback that your every action is judged by the rest of the galaxy in a harsher light. Purges and slavery by superpowers should elicit strong negative reaction from just about everyone, whereas a small stellar empire doing it should go practically unnoticed. This will additionally go a long way to solve the harsh purge penalty problem mentioned in other threads.

-AI personalities should be expanded somewhat to create affinities towards different behavior on the international (galactic?) arena. States don't just compete but are also capable of cooperation and promotion of shared goals, but this behavior isn't a fixed constant but depends both on the "personality" and "values" of a given state as much as the practical situation around it. A state stuck among a group of brutal barbaric expansionist empires might be pacifistic by ideology but will have to adopt similiar less scrupulous attitudes as a means of preserving its existence at least until the threat is neutralized, even if it doesn't identify with militaristic values. And similiarly a brutal despotic empire stuck in the middle of a bunch of harmonious cooperative space nations that are willing to perform humanitarian intervention ought to at least temporarily behave in a more agreeable way. In short it makes no sense to be space Gandhi when surround by space Huns and it makes no sense to be space Genghis when an alliance of friendly empires would knock you out right away. The ability for the AI to shift between these behaviors (even if very unwillingly) would add a sense of dynamic and rational behavior. A third in between behavior could serve as the default way the AI acts now, warring others but mostly for material gain and treating other empires as competition rather than enemies.


While I understand this would likely be no easy feat to translate to a game, something of the sort would go a long way to helping diplomacy become more dynamic and making it feel like you're dealing with real space nations following their own interest. Since Stellaris is heavily based on a combination of real world politics mixed with sci-fi and gameplay conventions and because I know Paradox loves to try to push the genre towards a great balance of complexity and fun gameplay, I have confidence they could be able to implement more real world concepts and make them reasonably fun to play.
 

prismaticmarcus

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one of the post-release dev diaries spoke about 'diplomatic incidents' being something they wanted to introduce down the track. i hope this is still the case as this, i think, would help to create the 'personality' you're after.