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May 31, 2005
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Imagine being able to redefine provinces in real time? I'm not speaking of a highly complex system. Merely a way to combine, and split up provinces, into new provinces, which one can name during the game.
Of course there needs to be a minimum province size, but each larger province could be split into a few smaller ones, and many small ones could be combined into larger ones (with a maximum size).

And all of this for a price. It should be expensive and with far ranging consequences.
More provinces should add to political instability, decrease economic efficiency all at the cost of increased micromanagement. What good is this you ask?
Well, war! Defensive depth. More fortifications. More of everything defensive. Maybe there are other advantages somebody can think of.

But combine provinces into something larger, and what do you get? Increased stability, greater net economic output, easy management, all at the cost of losing such a large portion of your nation to an invader much more easily, for you could only build a single fortification.

Take the provinces in Victoria and have those as the base province number all possible players on the map could reach. Then take EU3 and have that as the starting province number (of course borders would need to be tinkered with and altered in all stages, these are ancient times).

This adds a whole new dynamic to the game. AI's, if feeling defensive, could build a nightmarish jigsaw puzzle of forts all throughout their territory. This would make the smaller countries/tribes stand a chance, or at least bleed the invader with his massive well trained army dry.

The larger entities would want to maximize their economy in order to afford better offensive troops, thus they would do the opposite, decreasing the number of administrative regions. Going for a more centralized system that answers more readily, swiftly and efficiently to the regent/emperor/council.

Now, this idea is full of holes and potential issues, like how would the AI deal with this complex web of provinces that would dynamically break apart and regrow, but I'm sure something like it could be implemented in Rome or some future paradox game. I'm sure paradox has enough skill by now.
Maybe a more limited province management system, maybe a more complex one, it would be so cool.
 

kierun

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If you are to do that better get ride of borders altogether and have a map without them. Cities, forts and armies will have zones of control extending till some criterion is met. Populations would be either happy or unhappy about you being around and would shrink/extend your zone of control.

But that is a lot of coding work. No chance that it'll be in EU:R.
 

STGeorge

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I thought one game that did dynamic borders well was the old 'Alpha Centauri' its combined both City zones of control with a fluid 'dynamic' border....great game!
 

likk9922

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It might be difficult to implement.... :(
 

kierun

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likk9922 said:
It might be difficult to implement.... :(

You think? ;>
 

SirGrotius

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Neat idea, which fits the period, but what does it add in terms of gameplay, really? The only game I played which had close to dynamic borders was Rise of Nations, and that was a completely different beast. If anything, I disliked the dynamic borders, because it was so weird watching them in flux and all it affected was attrition, really.
 

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Dynamic borders really only work well with a grid-based system, which I'd rather not see in a Paradox game.
 

unmerged(19915)

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Aye, the ultimate endpoint of a breakable border system is a hexed based approach. Paradox like to use the province based system for any number of reasons, including AI limitations, visual appeal, historical accuracy and simplicity of programming.

A hex based approach has its own set of benefits, but unless you're a real hardcore grognard hexes get really complicated. And unless you shrank a hex down to a region the size of say, Manhattan, the maps would always look cheesy. Plus, this would results in literally millions of hexes.

A good compromise may be the idea of regions, and that control of a set of provinces in a region gives a special benefit. Or that regions have their own level of buildable improvements or characteristics.
 

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Murdoch said:
A good compromise may be the idea of regions, and that control of a set of provinces in a region gives a special benefit. Or that regions have their own level of buildable improvements or characteristics.

Not unlike Victoria. So it might work. And the reorganization could be made to happen on region level, not province level (province as in Victoria province, not historical roman province... man this is complicated).
 

gosam

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It's not happening in this game, since the concept itself of provinces is deeply embedded in the engine and game philosophy.

I remember playing the demo of a game that used a map system down to the level of pixels. When suing for peace, you drawed a new border with the mouse.
It was nice, but it doesn't allow for the depth of PDOX games. maybe in some years, the HOI3 engine will be like this.
 

Sute]{h

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kierun said:
If you are to do that better get ride of borders altogether and have a map without them. Cities, forts and armies will have zones of control extending till some criterion is met. Populations would be either happy or unhappy about you being around and would shrink/extend your zone of control.

But that is a lot of coding work. No chance that it'll be in EU:R.
That would be great though. Much more in line with a pre-Westphalian statesystem as well. But difficult to grasp for us modern people used to think of orderly borders and states.
 

unmerged(25822)

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I think it would be much more interesting and realistic to make "strategic" locations on the map , for example controlling 10 forts on the Dunabe gives you control over Moisia ( Northern Bulgaria) and Dobrutsa , controlling Ankona and Bari gives you control over Ionian sea etc , this would allow you to place goals in the game and strategically try to achieve them instead of the usual province grabbing.