Now I appreciate panzer forces more

[I had a bad name 99]

As Italy, I am racing against time to snap up as much lands from the Soviets as possible, so that I can get some rewards (the oil-rich Caucasus) at the peace conference with Germany.

Hence, I am committing all my forces (726k men) to this part of the front, while I am still in war with China.

I have two fronts -- the Eastern Persian front and the Western Persian front.

My Eastern Persian Front is in extremely slow stalemate because our infantry forces are nearly even matched. I seldom have enough infantry to breakthrough and conduct mini-encirclement to blow a hole in the front.

As for my Western persian front, I was able to advance much faster even though I am facing a slightly outnumbered (currently 37 enemy infantry vs 48 of mine) force entrenched in the mountains.
My humble panzer force of 8 divisions has allowed me to breakthrough enemy lines easily, and cut off many enemy divisions.

Of course, counting other factors (my airpower, German's spectacular advance), I would say panzer divisions are just excellent in breaking line stalemate. If I just have two or three of them for my Eastern Persian front, I could have sped up the advance a lot!

No wonder tanks are the game changer during WW1. They are just good at leading an advance, whether towards Moscow or Stalingrad. Let me know what you think!

 

[I had a bad name 99]

This is also another example of how you can rapidly pinch off an enemy salient at little to no cost. Just position my panzergruppe of eight tanks at the end of one of my bulges, and then cut it across to the end of the other bulge.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

Two downsides though:

1. Your vanguard tank divisions may have to wait for infantry divisions to take their own sweet time marching towards them, in order to take up defensive positions.
This means you cannot take rapidly push forward or deploy them to another part of your front. And this delay will also allow enemy to rapidly deploy reserves to your breakthrough area, hence preventing further advance. Having strong CAS might be a faster way to do that, as it is also good for blasting a hole in enemy line.

2. Supply

I refer to the previous example on closing a salient "quickly". It might not be as quick, when you are in low-infrastructure area. Again, deploying more artillery or CAS might be better way to provide that critical breakthrough. Otherwise, you can get more logistic company or upgrade the infrastructure (the slowest method).

 

[Anaraxes]

Your vanguard tank divisions may have to wait for infantry divisions to take their own sweet time marching towards them, in order to take up defensive positions.

This is where motorized infantry comes in handy. They rapidly can fill in those salients to hold them open against counterattacks while the tanks keep moving.

 

[Yanotoshi]

Motorized is just expensive. Use cavalry instead.
Or make breakthrough with heavier tank units and use outdated lighter tanks to secure the sectors.
Or, realize breakthrough with heavier units, let them advance on wide front and make encirclements with faster, light units.

 

[SophieX]

In general:
Most battle-screenshots ( not only in this thread ) didn't show show anything about "mobile warfare", but showing frontline-movements as in WW1 ( ok, with the exeption of some minor little "spear-heads" ).

I didn't see fast moving tank-divisions making a "blitz" deep into enemy-territory. There are no movements with the aim to encircle multiple regions.
Why?


@EliteWehrmacht
I would have done this: 2nd picture move all tanks to the east, breakthrough at the Caspian-cost, drawing a tank line to Aral-sea
1st picture : While the tanks are moving, infantry "closes" the one tile to Aral-sea.
-> Caucasus and Kuban-region encircled.

With more tanks, a longer tank-line could be continued by drawing Aral-sea to Kasachstan border.
-> whole SOV South-army encircled.
Of course, you have to micro that.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

This is where motorized infantry comes in handy. They rapidly can fill in those salients to hold them open against counterattacks while the tanks keep moving.

You're right. Should have trained a couple of them.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

In general:
Most battle-screenshots ( not only in this thread ) didn't show show anything about "mobile warfare", but showing frontline-movements as in WW1 ( ok, with the exeption of some minor little "spear-heads" ).

I wasn't trying to show blitzkrieg, but the use of panzer as a breakthrough weapon, which shows its potential in WW1.

-> Caucasus and Kuban-region encircled

Is this wrong information? I believe Kuban and Caucasus are more located towards the West.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

Listened to the friendly advice of @SophieX. I was able to cut off a sizeable portion of Soviet forces.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

Motorized is just expensive. Use cavalry instead.

Why? Italy doesn't lack IC or fuel. Motorized is twice as fast as cavalry. He's not fighting in forests and jungles either.

I understand that the Italian fast division template starts with cavalry, but if you are making them full armored divisions, you should get rid of the cavalry. A division moves at the speed of its slowest component, so cavalry is only going slowing the division down.

As a rule of thumb: don't mix cavalry with motorized. You don't want divisions that consume oil yet move at cavalry pace.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

Why? Italy doesn't lack IC or fuel. Motorized is twice as fast as cavalry. He's not fighting in forests and jungles either.


I understand that the Italian fast division template starts with cavalry, but if you are making them full armored divisions, you should get rid of the cavalry. A division moves at the speed of its slowest component, so cavalry is only going slowing the division down.

As a rule of thumb: don't mix cavalry with motorized. You don't want divisions that consume oil yet move at cavalry pace.

I thought it is cool to be historical -- Italy does have an odd mix of modern and backwards equipment. The addition of cavalry helps in that regard. Not only that, Italy has quite low IC to begin with -- I am in the process of switching them out for medium tanks and SPA.

 

[Yanotoshi]

Why? Italy doesn't lack IC or fuel. Motorized is twice as fast as cavalry. He's not fighting in forests and jungles either.

Then mechanized is even better.

 

[Gort11]

Mechanised is slower, more expensive, and arrives once the war is well on the way to decided.

 

[Eisscrat]

Mechanised is slower, more expensive, and arrives once the war is well on the way to decided.

Mechanized Infantry is not slower. Mech II makes 10km/h. This is the speed of Med III or modern tanks. Mech III makes 12km/h the speed of mot inf.
They are very expensive but worth every penny. With there high hardness and excellent defense the hold everyline. He is already in 43 so mech II is no problem. If you priorize med III and mech II or III noone can stop you.

 

[I had a bad name 99]

Mechanised is slower, more expensive, and arrives once the war is well on the way to decided.

Mechanized Infantry is not slower. Mech II makes 10km/h. This is the speed of Med III or modern tanks. Mech III makes 12km/h the speed of mot inf.
They are very expensive but worth every penny. With there high hardness and excellent defense the hold everyline. He is already in 43 so mech II is no problem. If you priorize med III and mech II or III noone can stop you.

So many people talking about panzer/mot/mech, I guess I am still a very old fashioned infantry person. Like the fact that they are versatile. They can advance at reasonable pace, secure ground when needed, and provide decent firepower (AT, AA, ART). Just reliable and cost-effective at all times.

Fun fact: German infantry arguably played a greater role in destroying most Soviet tanks, before the arrival of heavy tanks like the Tiger.

 

[Gort11]

Mechanized Infantry is not slower. Mech II makes 10km/h. This is the speed of Med III or modern tanks. Mech III makes 12km/h the speed of mot inf.
They are very expensive but worth every penny. With there high hardness and excellent defense the hold everyline. He is already in 43 so mech II is no problem. If you priorize med III and mech II or III noone can stop you.

Mechanised is slower than motorised until 1944 technology, which means it's slower until the game is basically over.

 

[Eisscrat]

Mechanised is slower than motorised until 1944 technology, which means it's slower until the game is basically over.

By 42 tech there are as fast as your best tanks.
That is enough for the job. Anything else is a bonus.

The tankdivisions are the steel tip of the spear. That punch the hole. The mot inf is the wodden shaft that holds the sides of the encirclement. And later u have the IC to enforce the wood with steel that there never is a risk that the enemy can break out of the trap.

 

[Gort11]

By 42 tech there are as fast as your best tanks.
That is enough for the job. Anything else is a bonus.

Sure. Bonuses are good.

 

[Simon_9732495]

Mechanized Infantry is not slower. Mech II makes 10km/h. This is the speed of Med III or modern tanks. Mech III makes 12km/h the speed of mot inf.
They are very expensive but worth every penny. With there high hardness and excellent defense the hold everyline. He is already in 43 so mech II is no problem. If you priorize med III and mech II or III noone can stop you.

Mot/Mech comparison table:

Tech	Year	Speed in km/h	IC Cost	Steel	Rubber
Mot	1936​	12​	2.5​	1​	1​
Mech1	1940​	8​	8​	2​	1​
Mech2	1942​	10​	10​	3​	1​
Mech3	1944​	12​	12​	4​	1​

Source: https://hoi4.paradoxwikis.com/Infantry_technology#Motorized


I agree that they are very expensive (not only IC but also resources).

I disagree that they are worth every penny. The are good at denfensive, but even normal Infantry is good enough for defense. In Tank divisions they are nice to have, but not a must. Tanks are also super strong with motorized.

I also disagree that Mech technology makes the difference, whether the enemy can stop you or not.