Novgorod in Mare Nostrum: How is it supposed to be played?

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Artess

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So there's been this change to merchant republics: going over 20 provinces kills your republican tradition by -0.1 per province, I believe. Meaning that even with Novgorod's ideas having 35 provinces means zero RT generation.

My question is, what is the strategy for Novgorod now? They start with 16 provinces already. This leaves barely any room for expansion. You cannot even eat Muscovy, meaning that they will be a permanent threat until the end of the game (what with their missions to murder or vassalise you). All the while they expand and grow in power. You cannot form Russia, because that requires expansion. You cannot switch to a different government other than through losing your tradition. You cannot play a naval game because all your upstream nodes are inland. You cannot do anything. You just sit there and wait until either Muscovy or Sweden decide that they want those lands. I know the words "literally unplayable" are often used as a joke, but this comes pretty close to it in all seriousness

I understand the idea of tall merchant republics in the HRE. I understand that it complements the mechanic of trade leagues. But I am pretty sure that when PDS thought of this change, they forgot that Novgorod exists.

There needs to be a solution to this, and please, please don't let it be "switch Novgorod to a different type of republic by default". Being a merchant power is what defined it, what helped it flourish. It's fine to have this kind of limit on people who decide to convert to a MR - they know what they'll be getting into. But given Novgorod's geopolitical situation, there is just no way it can survive with just twenty provinces. The only workaround in the current situation could be to rely heavily on vassals, but I think if this is the intended playstyle, it should be reflected in national ideas for Novgorod.

Don't let Novgorod die.
 
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Play the only Russian state the devs remember to exist.

I dont understand people who want to play in Russia;

And then they go and pick the worst kind of Russians.

The ones that are all democratic and republican and capitalist and all that s$#1t. And on top probably human rightsy and libertish etc.

Might as well just go and play as any Western country...
 
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I dont understand people who want to play in Russia;

And then they go and pick the worst kind of Russians.

The ones that are all democratic and republican and capitalist and all that s$#1t. And on top probably human rightsy and libertish etc.

Might as well just go and play as any Western country...

Once upon a time, you had one option in Russia that wasn't utter trash in government type.

But now you have 0 :).
 
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I dont understand people who want to play in Russia;

And then they go and pick the worst kind of Russians.

The ones that are all democratic and republican and capitalist and all that s$#1t. And on top probably human rightsy and libertish etc.

Might as well just go and play as any Western country...

Sorry, vk.com/putinlovers is that way --->


And about the OP: Either Paradox doesn't care about non-Muscovy Russian states, or they forgot. Both terrible possibilities.
 
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The-Doc

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Merchant Republic should not be a sustainable state for an expansive power.

It represents a city state dominated by mercantile interests, and a focus on returning wealth to that same city. Historically these were fractitious, and being unable to administrate itself without a Doge/Kniaz taking firmer control makes sense.

While I'd like a path to reform into an equivalent tech republic the current situation isn't unreasonable.
 
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Once upon a time, you had one option in Russia that wasn't utter trash in government type.

But now you have 0 :).

Russia is not supposed to excel. Its supposed to be formed by a pretty standard, if not slightly backward country, that isnt super innovative or technologically advanced, but still can handle almost anything due to the fact that it gets to rule a pretty huge piece of land thats essentially a cultural monolith.

There is almost an artistic beauty in Moscovy's approach to things. If you can beat them, send more bardiche wielding peasants next summer.

Well apart from Poles and Crimeans burning down Moscow on occasion. But we dont talk about that.

Overall my favorite place in EU4 alongside with Milan.
 
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Russia is not supposed to excel. Its supposed to be formed by a pretty standard, if not slightly backward country, that isnt super innovative or technologically advanced, but still can handle almost anything due to the fact that it gets to rule a pretty huge piece of land thats essentially a cultural monolith.

There is almost an artistic beauty in Moscovy's approach to things. If you can beat them, send more bardiche wielding peasants next summer.

Well apart from Poles and Crimeans burning down Moscow on occasion. But we dont talk about that.

Overall my favorite place in EU4 alongside with Milan.

I don't mind Muscovy, I mind the asinine design of monarchies in the game and their tendency to remove your ability to play it.
 
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Artess

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Merchant Republic should not be a sustainable state for an expansive power.

It represents a city state dominated by mercantile interests, and a focus on returning wealth to that same city. Historically these were fractitious, and being unable to administrate itself without a Doge/Kniaz taking firmer control makes sense.

While I'd like a path to reform into an equivalent tech republic the current situation isn't unreasonable.
I think Novgorod is different from other merchant republics in this regard. It most certainly was not a single city(-state) - just look at its size around 1400, at its height (source: Wikipedia):

Novgorod1400.png


They didn't have any significant administrative problems evident that would have caused their downfall. The only reason Novgorod ceased to exist was Muscovy simply conquering all of it. Maybe it would have eventually imploded due to administrative or economic issues, but we'll never know.
 
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I think Novgorod is different from other merchant republics in this regard. It most certainly was not a single city(-state) - just look at its size around 1400, at its height (source: Wikipedia):

Novgorod1400.png


They didn't have any significant administrative problems evident that would have caused their downfall. The only reason Novgorod ceased to exist was Muscovy simply conquering all of it. Maybe it would have eventually imploded due to administrative or economic issues, but we'll never know.

However keep in mind that 90% of that territory is a barely populated hinterland wasteland. Im talking literally 200 km of nothing a trade post 200 km of nothing a trade post etc.

Novgorod was the only serious city. Everything else, at times, at best towns.
 
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Much of that territory was empty, or thinly populated by nomadic hunters. Novgorod existed as an association of towns mostly, with Novgorod proper dominant. I do agree that Novgorod wasn't typical, it was really more of an oligarchic republic.
 

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Maybe if @DDRJake would stop by this thread and share the devs' vision for Novgorod, we could all come to a solution together.

This is what DDRJake said in this thread:

If you wish to blob as a merchant republic, open Steam\steamapps\common\europa universalis iv\common

Open defines.lua with a text editor like Notepad++

Locate the line

MERCHANT_REPUBLIC_SIZE_LIMIT = 20,

And change 20 to 30, or 50 or 9999, whatever your heart desires.

This change would not leave you eligible for Ironman though.
 
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