Novgorod and Russia

[unmerged(5664)]

Originally posted by Caramel
Even if you do manage to survive the Russian minor conundrum, by the time you annex all of them, your BB would be so high you'd have to start worrying about Poland-Lithuania and Sweden Part Deux... The ends justify the means though. =)

The trick of playing any of the Russian minors is to not annex anyone. Try and get someone else to annex the one-province minors, and then take the province from that person.

The one successful time I played Novgorod I was able to seize Muscowy's two provinces, but then Tver actually annexed Muscowy itself.

At almost all costs avoid taking the huge hit for military annexing. The other otion is to try and diplo-annex the remaining russian minors.

BarristerBoy

 

[BiB]

Originally posted by BarristerBoy


The trick of playing any of the Russian minors is to not annex anyone. Try and get someone else to annex the one-province minors, and then take the province from that person.

The one successful time I played Novgorod I was able to seize Muscowy's two provinces, but then Tver actually annexed Muscowy itself.

At almost all costs avoid taking the huge hit for military annexing. The other otion is to try and diplo-annex the remaining russian minors.

BarristerBoy

I usually end up with a mix of that system. Same religion annex BB points and relation penalties should be avoided. Seeing how the AI isn't bothered by that and that diploannexing is pisseasy right now it's even easy to pull off.

 

[dralizaar]

i have a novgorod game that has gone pretty well i think...

started right off by asking to be let into denmark's alliance to keep sweden from dowing me..that saves me a front deters <i had hoped> other aggressions

denmark dows holstein and i honored it of course..sending troops <split my starting 12k armies into 2 6k and built 12k more to split> sending them to livonia and estonia to seige...my new builds sent 3k to polotsk waiting for more troops to be built..when doh!!! muscovy dows me..shortly later suxdal dows me...i lose some battles with my builds <im still maxing troop builds> arch is occupied by suzdal despite a raid i did sending 6k troops through muscovy northern lands to lay seige..suzdal marched back and destroyed that army ..then came back and seiged my northern fort...while muscovy worked on my capitol with a huge army...


pskov and tver alliance dows me...more troops join seige of my capitol and it falls they move to inger ..im building more troops in my fortless prov to north Hex ...seiges work in livonia and estonia...i move them to hold kurland while polotsk starts to fall

tver is bought off by 3 gold...pskov dows muscovy and their troops and muscovy battle each other to death in ingermanland breaking that seige..i move my armies down from hex to lay seige to my capitol while marshaling more troops to send into musocvy while they fight and seige tver....i manage to get 6k in each mucovy prov and sudzal capitols by sending 3k at a time...won a few battles by timing my movements with his builds and staggering arrivals to keep morale high...sudzal troops have attritioned away big time in my provs they came back and try to break seige of their capitol and i drive them off and send troops to chase them into nothingness and liberate arch colony

muscovy sends troops back from tver to try and break seige of moscow and fails i free my capitol and send those troops to reinforce my seiges in muscovy...kurland falls to me..i demand all 3 provinces from tuetonic order and get them plus cash..i brign that army in to lay seige to pskov after breaking his army

moscow falls and its 2 provinces as well...i demand both its provs and vasalize them..suzdal falls and i send troops to liberate my fallen city they still control...eventually it fell as did pskov and i annexed both..tver redows me and i drive into them quickly and annex them..muscovy anexes ryazan then loses it to golden horde then dows me breaking vassalization..i beat off his rebuitl army barely and drive into to seige capitol...sweden breaks alliance when asked to help..then dows me as does lithuania

both of them lay seige to livonia and poltsk big time and lose many troops...i finish off moscow and annex then send my armies into sweden laying seige to 5 provinces while building as many troops as i can...polotsk falls as does livonia my capitol is under seige...lithuania demands polotsk and i accept...turning my full attention on sweden..they own kurland and memel from the earlier wars plus bremen..people start dowing them all over..denmark is helping me somewhat...i beat off the sparse swedish armies and keep presisng foward sending strings of troops to occupy then seige all his lands keeping steady flow of fresh troops even in winter..eventually i control all but bremen and sweden offers me memel kurland finland tavastland savolaks oster and gastrickland<sp> i accept..was tempted to vassalize them but got greedy...i spent time building fresh troops and forting my lands and maxing my colonies

its now 1460 or so inflation is nearly 5% i have 50k troops and lithunia has dowed me again ...this si where im at...not bad wouldnt ya think? i own all of russia...half of sweden all of tuetonic order and half of prussia

 

[Ulyanov]

Akkurat jah! Man kan altså skrive på et annet språk hvis man vil? Det er jo fint for de som har "uforståelige" språk, de kan jo virkelig si slemme ting hvis de vil. Jeg, derimot, får ris på rumpa da "sjefene" her er svenske

 

[InnocentIII]

Same religion annex BB points and relation penalties should be avoided. Seeing how the AI isn't bothered by that and that diploannexing is pisseasy right now it's even easy to pull off.

I'm having a real hard time getting Suzdal to join me. They have one additional province they took from Kazan, we have 199 relations when I ask, they've been my vassal over 50 years (from 1424 to late 1400s), and my rep is usually only rather bad. When I get to rather bad I figure it's time to take a couple more provinces.

So, in this case anyway, I'm finding diplo annexxing to be a pain (and some was 1.04 and some 1.05). I wonder if their CB against me counts in the accept/refuse calculation.

FWIW - I gave up on Novgorod and figured I'd try as Muscowy in my first Russia GC, much easier so far. Very nice leaders the first few decades.

 

[unmerged(2759)]

Originally posted by Ulyanov
Akkurat jah! Man kan altså skrive på et annet språk hvis man vil? Det er jo fint for de som har "uforståelige" språk, de kan jo virkelig si slemme ting hvis de vil. Jeg, derimot, får ris på rumpa da "sjefene" her er svenske

*Tar fram Riset*

DASK, DASK!

 

[Ulyanov]

I don't understand why you all are discussing wether it's better to play Novogorod than Muscowy or not. I think the most clever thing to do is just to be superior to the AI. If you're the best, like me, it doesn't matter who you're playing.

 

[unmerged(6925)]

1) Yes
2) You must own Moscow around turn of the century
3) They are just using their CB on you, I suppose

 

[unmerged(6340)]

I began with Tver(nice shield)
After a few years i declared war on Muscowy,i reduced them inzo a one-province minor.Later they annexed Rayzan,but i had two other wars and i annexed them.But Byzantium was exist,so i edited the event file,without it i would not get the conquistators and events.So i am now Russia,but in Novgorod,Ingermland and in an other northern province there is a +10 revolt risk by an event.Is it from Novgorod,because there were revolts there when i attacked them. I am very good on the steppes and in Siberia,but the Polish border is at my capital.

 

[kurtbrian]

what year was this?

novgorod had a civil war in the later half of 15th century

 

[Styrbiorn]

Originally posted by kurtbrian
what year was this?

novgorod had a civil war in the later half of 15th century

Yep, there is a Novgorodian civil war event in the 1460s which cause the revolt risk to raise to 10.

 

[unmerged(1302)]

Actually, Novgorod should lose every single battle they fight, because historically their army sucked. And no DP changes would have helped. That's a travesty that you can win and annex other Russian minors, beciuse historically you couldn't and there were good reasons for that.

 

[unmerged(7024)]

And to add insult to injury the last king of Novgorod dies in the 1400s (I checked the save file). What does one do until one can become Russia, assuming one does? Let the Duma rule?

 

[unmerged(8303)]

the game doesnt run on purely historical lines. If someone as skillful as jaronpinochet had been king of novgorod things might have been quite different

 

[unmerged(6340)]

Originally posted by kurtbrian
what year was this?

novgorod had a civil war in the later half of 15th century

So i inherited it and it became pernament.
I have to keep a strong army there.

 

[Misha]

yuri asked:

And to add insult to injury the last king of Novgorod dies in the 1400s (I checked the save file). What does one do until one can become Russia, assuming one does? Let the Duma rule?

The last ruler doesn't die. Feodosi ("the Deathless") remains the monarch until Novgorod can claim the mantle of Russia. For fun, I renamed him Misha & imagined I was the ruler of Novgorod until 1520. Of course, I swear I have better stats than DIP 5, ADM 6, MIL 3...