Nov18 beta - three conclusions

[borg1980]

I played 30 years on newest 18th NOV beta and I have three conclusions:
- it's much more stable than previous beta (almost 30 years without ctd)
- it's too few young women on the beginning (I want to mary in 1076 and
I have no choice )
- i had very painful ctd during saving a game near 1096.

 

[Grosshaus]

I would say this fits better in the public beta forum.

 

[unmerged(7415)]

Can anyone tell me if I can apply the Nov18 patch to my existing Oct31 installation without wrecking my existing game? Has anyone tried it?

 

[unmerged(5707)]

Just assume that any previous game is gonna still have residual bugs hiding in the save file even if played under a newer patch.

 

[Grosshaus]

Can anyone tell me if I can apply the Nov18 patch to my existing Oct31 installation without wrecking my existing game? Has anyone tried it?

Most propably it works, but you might encounter bugs that are left in the savegame but fixed in the Nov18th patch.

 

[borg1980]

I played until year 1110 and I have another two conclusions:
- I have still big problems with saving and loading a game (autosave is not
always working well and I cannot continue my game because of ctd on
loading - during a saving i have not any report about problems)
- Fatimidis are much too agressive - they conquer whole Croatia and Bohemia.

 

[Spruce]

I played until year 1110 and I have another two conclusions:
- I have still big problems with saving and loading a game (autosave is not
always working well and I cannot continue my game because of ctd on
loading - during a saving i have not any report about problems)
- Fatimidis are much too agressive - they conquer whole Croatia and Bohemia.

The discussion is more deeper and needs some attention...

I think the alliance model is the problem combined with the lack of claims for Muslems to take Christian land (and vice versa). Croatia and Bohemia where allied with someone else that got into a war with Croatia or Bohemia,

I've even seen the kingdom of Hungary turned a muslem state due to these crappy alliances.

You can say the Fatamids are too agressive, but when you are at war it's probably so that your enemies show up to learn you a lesson.

And basicly I don't want to discuss "Muslem Naval Movement" thing over and over again , the point is that Muslems don't need claims to take Christian land (and vice verca). With the current alliance model I've seen things like "Muslem Brittany, Hungary, Croatia, Bohemia" etc.

Perhaps changing the engine so a Christian ruler needs a claim on a muslem province (and vice verca) would solve the problem. You then just have to give the "boundary states" like Aragon, Navarra, Leon, Castilia, Spanisch Galicia "claims on the whole of Spain.

So then a muslem invasion of Hungary would lead to a peace negotiation with the Muslems having no claims on Hungary and no option to annex Hungary to become a Muslem state,

off course the discussion goes 2 ways.

ps = or you can make the claims on Muslem land very cheap and the claim from Muslems on Christian land rather expensive. Besides during "crusader" kings, the offensive Christians need less prestige to claim a province.

I know it might sound as heresy to you all, but remember that the option to have alliances in the current game engine will always lead to such things...

 

[unmerged(22135)]

Or taking the cross could give your ruler a substantial number of claims in the target region.

Yours sincerely,
OG

 

[unmerged(10915)]

I quite agree with that claims idea. Also as Oliver Guinnes says that when a nation goes crusading, he gains claims on the target areas (or something like that?). Those claims should go after another christian nation has taken control over the province, as the justification will be gone then.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Is it possible to rework the engine so much to have claims needed for religious wars too though?

 

[borg1980]

ps = or you can make the claims on Muslem land very cheap and the claim from Muslems on Christian land rather expensive. Besides during "crusader" kings, the offensive Christians need less prestige to claim a province.

Good idea, but i think that claims on Muslem land and from Muslems on
Christians should be cheap (1/3 modifier or so) and equal (Christians can get
claims when crusading - as Oliver Guinnes wrote).

 

[unmerged(25476)]

actually I'm dissagreeing with all the above conclusions...

tried 5 games so far.. ( first 4 where hands off to test the CTD issues) and the current game..

observations so far...

The muslim nations do attack the western and central european powers but only if they or thier allies are attacked first. so what if we have Muslim kingdoms in western europe...

I like the way spain is working now... it turns into a quagmire of christian and moslem counties where the other european powers... (england, france and germany in particuar) are not afraid to wade into the mess... I've seen 2 games where the muslims have come out on top now, and 2 where the Christian powers have ejected the muslims... and the one I'm playing where there is a pretty nice stalemate going back and forth...

 

[Spruce]

actually I'm dissagreeing with all the above conclusions...

tried 5 games so far.. ( first 4 where hands off to test the CTD issues) and the current game..

observations so far...

The muslim nations do attack the western and central european powers but only if they or thier allies are attacked first. so what if we have Muslim kingdoms in western europe...

I like the way spain is working now... it turns into a quagmire of christian and moslem counties where the other european powers... (england, france and germany in particuar) are not afraid to wade into the mess... I've seen 2 games where the muslims have come out on top now, and 2 where the Christian powers have ejected the muslims... and the one I'm playing where there is a pretty nice stalemate going back and forth...

ok, but I must say that a powerful Muslim king can take out any Christian power leading to supersized Muslem states all over the place. Like a Muslem Hungary or Croatia in a sea of Christian neighbours,

no we should either =

- give claims when you go on crusade (great idea),
- give claims for borderlands for free (f.e. Aragon gets claims on Spanisch provinces that are muslem),
- make claims rather cheap, but this randomises too much I'm afraid,

the problem is that the AI can't be taught to get into a reasonable alliance and that the Muslems take Christian land without any claim - and vice versa,

this all is very reasonable - instead of far away land. I don't think it's realistic to assume a Muslem army ever marched to Hungary and installed Muslem sheikdoms everywhere...

 

[borg1980]

this all is very reasonable - instead of far away land. I don't think it's realistic to assume a Muslem army ever marched to Hungary and installed Muslem sheikdoms everywhere...

I agree.
Islamic Bohemia in the center of christian Europe is also not realistic -
especially after peacefully march across catolics countries.

 

[Spruce]

I agree.
Islamic Bohemia in the center of christian Europe is also not realistic -
especially after peacefully march across catolics countries.

yeah, those Fatamids can fool around there but creating a Muslim enclave??

 

[unmerged(7415)]

Strange enclaves are bad juju.

-Armies should not be able to march across so much 'neutral' territory without any friction or loss of reputation.

-Auto-Annexation should not occur unless the province is adjacent to the annexors holdings, or is a maritime province within a reasonable distance.

I can report that I was able to update a game from Oct31 to Nov18 patch without problems. Still, the dominance of strange pagan and muslim enclaves have colored the entire game. Consider that such isolated enclaves are very easy for a human player to annex without needing a claim on the former christian lords of that province.

 

[unmerged(5707)]

See the Thread 'Solution to much silliness........'