Nov 18 -heritics and revolts

[unmerged(35838)]

Ok, i am hitting my head against the wall here. I keep getting revolts (which as you know only luck will remove) because "the people revolt because we tolerate heritics", i got the heritics my random event, killed all my courtiers who had turned heritic. WTF?
It seems a downward spiral only expeptional luck can get me out of

 

[Martinus]

Research Religious Stringency so you get Inquisition in the heretical provinces. Build courts.

 

[unmerged(35838)]

Research Religious Stringency so you get Inquisition in the heretical provinces. Build courts.

Done and done but the incredible unlikliness of the "deal with revolt" event is killing me. I have had one province in revolt for 100 years! Once they revolt it takes amazing luck to get rid of the effect. I can't even give the damn places away. hell, its a lot easier to gain new provs than to clear up a single revolt, let alone 6 of them. Oh and while I am on the subject, each prov that has acutually rebeled has only had bad peasant loyalty, but wow, what armies they field - they always need outside help to get rid of. yeah i tried lowering peasant power - doesnt work - everyone and his dog still rebels.

it isnt that i am being a bad loser, (i am still winning, its just driving me nuts), i just wish i could do something proactive to deal with revolts, even if it is pricey.

 

[flyer]

yeah, I completely agree. how do I deal with revolts? i'm just supposed to wait until the "deal with revolt" event happens? that's not a strategy.

 

[Cat Lord]

OK.

I promise I will try to have a look this WE.

Cheers,

Cat

 

[Secret Master]

Cat Lord,

If I might offer a quick and easy solution to heresy problems, based on my experience with Orthodox heresies (filthy bastards... )

1) Decrease the MTTH of events related to getting rid of heresy based on clergy power in your province. You already take a hit with high clergy power (thanks to that wonderful event where heretics whine about your clergy), why not a benefit as well? And since high clergy power is also useful for converting heathens, I think it is intuitive here here.

2) Anytime heresy is eliminated via event, remove revolt effect as well. Considering that you can get extra revolts by failing to convert, I think this is a reasonable balance.

It's worth mentioning that in the Orthodox world, heresy is a wild ride. (Especially as the Empire.) I've had to keep the armies home for a few decades, rooting out heretics instead of stomping heathens. It has certainly added a new strategic element to the game.

 

[unmerged(36135)]

yeah and please increase the MTTH on the "unrest occurs because you are tolerating heretics"-events. It always seemed to me that people revolting against their king because his courtiers are heretics was a bit of a long shot (not that it couldn't happen though)

1) Decrease the MTTH of events related to getting rid of heresy based on clergy power in your province. You already take a hit with high clergy power (thanks to that wonderful event where heretics whine about your clergy), why not a benefit as well? And since high clergy power is also useful for converting heathens, I think it is intuitive here here.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

2) Anytime heresy is eliminated via event, remove revolt effect as well. Considering that you can get extra revolts by failing to convert, I think this is a reasonable balance.

I don't think it should be guaranteed...a revolt once started often takes on a life of its own, but a descent chance (like 80%) would suffice.

Also one for the reverse case, if they accept the new ideas.

 

[Spruce]

yeah, I completely agree. how do I deal with revolts? i'm just supposed to wait until the "deal with revolt" event happens? that's not a strategy.

wel, revolt can mean 2 things =

- that revolters start to siege a province, you have time to fight them off,
- the province is automatically in rebellion, perhaps your castle joins the cause of the rebels. This is especially happening when you have wildfire events (because your regiments are off fighting),

it was a common practice in middle ages to say "ok, let's make a deal" instead of whiping everybody out (you will you tax when you kill everybody?).

 

[unmerged(35838)]

OK.

I promise I will try to have a look this WE.

Cheers,

Cat

Thanks. We really appreciate the effort you guys put in.

 

[unmerged(5707)]

Great! Really glad to hear the revolt thing is gonna get looked at. One suggestion I would make is to key the start/end of a revolt to loyalty in the province.... I can always manage to get the loyalty back up to 90 or 100% by sitting my on hands for a year or two and foregoing the income, but it has no effect in the game...... Making a 'loyal' province less likely to revolt in the first place and more like to stop once it does will help playability and reflect real life somewhat. Also maybe a mod for troops on the ground in the province? Not sure whether this would help or hinder (see Iraq 2003/2004 )

 

[unmerged(35838)]

Great! Really glad to hear the revolt thing is gonna get looked at. One suggestion I would make is to key the start/end of a revolt to loyalty in the province.... I can always manage to get the loyalty back up to 90 or 100% by sitting my on hands for a year or two and foregoing the income, but it has no effect in the game...... Making a 'loyal' province less likely to revolt in the first place and more like to stop once it does will help playability and reflect real life somewhat. Also maybe a mod for troops on the ground in the province? Not sure whether this would help or hinder (see Iraq 2003/2004 )

Sit on my hands? what income? i have not asked for a bean more than sliders will allow for a 100 years and still most of those revolts are there. There are 12 now :wacko:

 

[unmerged(7509)]

Sit on my hands? what income? i have not asked for a bean more than sliders will allow for a 100 years and still most of those revolts are there. There are 12 now :wacko:

And that is exactly what Reddragyn pointed out. You can improve the loyalty of the four classes through the economic sliders, but that will still not prevent the revolts. Loyalty and revolts need to be connected in some way.

 

[Winkelried]

And that is exactly what Reddragyn pointed out. You can improve the loyalty of the four classes through the economic sliders, but that will still not prevent the revolts. Loyalty and revolts need to be connected in some way.

They are. Revolts lower loyalty. -0.50 for paesants and -0.10 for burghers iirc.

 

[unmerged(7509)]

They are. Revolts lower loyalty. -0.50 for paesants and -0.10 for burghers iirc.

I know that, but it doesn't work the other way. Having a highly loyal population doesn't always the chance of a revolt in a province, but I think it ought to. It seems logical to me that loyal subjects will be less likely to revolt

 

[unmerged(5707)]

Right. My objection is that having good loyalty has no effect, while having bad loyalty can have an effect. Just make the events (MUCH) more sensitive to the underlying loyalty ratings, with some way other than random event to cure them. Or make the event ending a revolt more common. But the key thing to me is to make loyalty play a larger (lets say nearly TOTAL!) role in determining whether a revolt starts or ends. It also seems to me that revolts spread faster than they end, so that you can take the event to quell a revolt and have a neighboring revolt spill back over almost immediately. It just drives me nuts (altho, admittedly, that is a short drive)

 

[Cat Lord]

OK.

I promise I will try to have a look this WE.

Sorry folks, didn't have all the time I would have wanted on my hands, so I have begin a set of revolt-related events, but it's not quite ready.

OTOH, I have tweaked 2 events in Heresy.txt:

1 - Orthodoxes should be able to crack down on heresy twice more often

2 - Non-heretic revolts because of heresy in the realm will now only occur on province bordering heretics.

Normally, they won't be widespread revolts in a very large realm, because of an odd single heretic province somewhere anymore... Revolts will at worst spread all around this province (which can still be rather bad but not insane).

Please try it before I finish the other set and send the whole to Johan.

To test if it improves the situation, copy the following file to replace the one which is in Paradox Entertainment\Crusader Kings\db\events

Post here your feedback

Cheers,

Cat