Why? The presence of a human player shouldn't make Bhutan capable of a nuclear program.
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Not very fun playing small countries
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Why? The presence of a human player shouldn't make Bhutan capable of a nuclear program.
It's fun to play as Hungary and become a major in 1938 by swallowing yugoslavia, czechia, austria and romania. Then you can take over Germany and become the new german empire.
Here is the thing : the game developpers made the choice to make vastly overpowered minors in order to make all countries "playable and fun".
All of that to please a part of the customer base who don't care so much about historical accuracy and play the game for memes/achievment (witch are the same things)
I (and some other players ) don't agree with that design philosophy and explained some reasons in this thread.
This disagreement with the game devs led to modding, that's why I'm working on my own project (Ultra mod, link bellow in my signature ) wich primarily makes the industrial balance of the game more historicaly accurate.
Some other mods do similar things, like World Ablaze (I helped them to balance it too)
So, in my opinion, playing mod is currently the best way to have a more historicaly balance between majors and minors.
All of that to please a part of the customer base who don't care so much about historical accuracy and play the game for memes/achievment (witch are the same things)
I (and some other players ) don't agree with that design philosophy and explained some reasons in this thread.
This disagreement with the game devs led to modding, that's why I'm working on my own project (Ultra mod, link bellow in my signature ) wich primarily makes the industrial balance of the game more historicaly accurate.
Some other mods do similar things, like World Ablaze (I helped them to balance it too)
So, in my opinion, playing mod is currently the best way to have a more historicaly balance between majors and minors.
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Its complicated as most minors cant do anything in ww2/pacific war, of course there are some in every continent that can go demo, fascist or commie that can be interesting.
America: You have mexico, brasil and canada.
Africa: You have south africa.
Asia: You have china, india.
Europe: You have Spain, Yugoslavia, Sweden and Poland.
Outside of those nations there are some runs that are interesting like turning Holland into Benelux, Restoring Austria-hungary, restoring the Ottoman Empire or Persia, but those are meant to be achievements and not normal games.
America: You have mexico, brasil and canada.
Africa: You have south africa.
Asia: You have china, india.
Europe: You have Spain, Yugoslavia, Sweden and Poland.
Outside of those nations there are some runs that are interesting like turning Holland into Benelux, Restoring Austria-hungary, restoring the Ottoman Empire or Persia, but those are meant to be achievements and not normal games.
One's options as a player of a minor nation are more limited - but that can be part of the fun. I think HoI4 actually does a somewhat decent job at playing "second fiddle" to AI majors.
I'm looking at you, Bhutan, Nepal, and Tibet. Japan thanks you for running the focuses for free factories and building tons of infantry kits before the empire comes and takes it all away.
One of my fondest memory back from the Hearts of Iron 1 days were two AARs titled Battleships for Bhutan and Nukes for Nepal (maybe @Secret Master remembers them too). Pure silliness, but part of the appeal of PDS games (in the general sense) has always been the ridiculous.
Now that we have sliders that can artificially strengthen a nation, I think it's time to rebalance minors so that they are as strong as they were historically.
Add tiered focus trees so that Brazil and Bhutan don't have the same magical abilities and the game would be even more balanced.
Add tiered focus trees so that Brazil and Bhutan don't have the same magical abilities and the game would be even more balanced.
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Romania is fun for me. I can usually gobble up my neighbors and even Turkey without the majors getting involved.
When the Soviets demand Bessarabia I just give it to them and then take it back later when they're being tied up by Germany.
When the Soviets demand Bessarabia I just give it to them and then take it back later when they're being tied up by Germany.
I'm probably in the minority, and certainly the developers don't agree, but I'd much prefer it if minor nations weren't even playable.
I won't disagree in that context. Taking the reins of a minor and doing something absurd has always been entertaining.
In HOI4, the impact these aspects related to minors have on major powers and fighting the war is a bit different. I don't object to you taking Bhutan and doing something fun with it. But I do sometimes get irritated that the AI will increase Bhutan's GDP by 1500%, only for a human major to gobble them up and puff up their own industry in an MP setting.
And this is coming from someone who has done this as Japan in MP, because it's a sound strategy. It makes a real difference economically, and in MP, even 10 extra IC might make a world of difference, to say nothing of getting 20,000 infantry kits upon capitulation.
In my ideal world, I'd want certain minors to be essentially "turned off" when under AI control. No NF tree at all (so no free techs or factories), no division or equipment spam, and no weird diplomacy or trade agreements. Under AI control, I want Bhutan and Nepal to just sit there and be useless. If a human takes control, by all means play the game intelligently and have fun.
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In my mod I did this : most irrelevant nations have no focus tree at all (in fact it is a void focus tree called "irrelevant" and given to all irrelevant minors). Only some minors (big enough or industrialized) get the default focus tree, wich is also nerfed in the mod anyway. Also, unindustrialized countries gets the "Agrarian Economy" economic system wich prevent them to become powerhouses by themselves.
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I wish it would be possible to take the best parts of ULTRA, and the best parts of Total War. IMO that would be the best mod ever. You do great work, so thank you!
Because the player is better than the AI. Naturally the small countries are a more difficult start, but player agency is everything to a strategy game.
Well, a lot of it is about resources. Small countries realistically couldn't amount to much. The only way PDS could improve the relevancy of small or tiny nations is by customizing and fabricating buffs on them. That would blow tho whole game up. You would see Denmark taking all of Europe in historical mode, or Panama conquering America's.
Also, HOI is very much like a war game so diplomacy, trade espionage etc. aren't up to par compared to EUIV, although, the latter is yet to be seen in the new expansion.
Likewise agree. Not that I have any MP experience (I basically never MP) The current base ruleset aims for a medium that, by dint of being a compromise, is never to going to properly suit any of the various ways one can play this game. I get most Paradox teams don't want to end up with a ruleset like one has in CK2, but increasingly I think they would benefit from one (perhaps with certain options hidden behind an "advanced" tab or the like.
That doesn’t answer my question because you’re basically repeating the same thing as before without giving me any reason to agree with you. “Player agency” can’t conjure up the scientific expertise, huge amount of funds, and other necessary components for Bhutan to have a nuclear program.
If someone wants to take Bhutan and use console commands to make it a superpower, have at it. But designing the actual game mechanics around making that possible will necessarily make the design worse overall for balance between nations and for players who want a more challenging and/or historical experience.
In HOI4 you can restore the Byzantine empire as Greece, and in an upcoming expansion they will allow Morroco to reform Al Adalusia, despite there not being a major Muslim prescence in Iberia for atleast 400 years.
That is to me more unlikely than Bhutan getting a nuclear programn. America historically did import scientists to be able to finish their nuclear project, so I suppose it is not impossible Bhutan could too.
That's what HoI4 and most paradox games are about, not staying true to history, but taking a alternate history based on player choices, and alternate paths being more difficult with small countries, but not impossible.
All this being said, I think the overall balance for small nation's is in a decent place.
I dislike playing big countries at this point, with a small country everything becomes so much more meaningful, every lost ship is a tragedy, every tank is precious, every factory/ressource extra so valuable. I played as Hungary, the Soviets pushed us back I liberated much of Romania after they had capitulated, helped push on into Ukraine before a final Soviet counter assault, had a great battle over Budapest (I had prepared defenses).
I've been playing Communist China recently and this is really a minor nation. This China run is one of the few savegames I've been playing beyond 1950. So much fun. But very demanding at first.
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