Not very fun playing small countries

[Riekopo]

I don't know about you guys but when I play small countries it's not very fun. Maybe it's just me though. But the lack of resources and industrial capacity really really limits what you can do. And there's not really any coordination between allies so it's just kind of boring.

 

[Selzro]

I like the limits. It makes what I do do feel like more of an accomplishment and every once in a while I find it fun to play a game without all the complexity of ordering around 200 divisions.

 

[LastButterfly]

It depends where you stop small.
I find that minors can be sublimed with a proper tree. The Netherland aren't exactly that weak in the first place, but with their tree, they became my favorite country to play. You have just the right amount of strength to survive at first and just the right amount of potential through the tree to become powerful enough.
New Zealand is an example of true, weak minor ; I find it fun also but with allies, in multiplayer. Alone, you're almost reduced to "assisting the AI" which wouldn't be a problem if the AI was smart.

So, yeah, I do think good minors can be very fun. Now how do people have fun playing Luxembourg, I have no idea ; but hey, as long as they're having fun~

 

[noobermenschen]

Some minors can be turned into majors quickly, like Sweden or Brazil. Iran is my favorite minor, however I haven't played since 1.6 and suspect that country has been gimped since 1.7 as oil is in much less demand, especially before 1939 when I'm trying to desperately build factories.

 

[Orlunu]

Hungary and Netherlands are likely my most played nations. Minors are better in multi (what isn't?), but even in SP they can be interesting enough, and their relative weakness can be balanced by sacrificing areas of research and development to go with a more specialist playstyle.

 

[Riekopo]

It's very strange Sweden doesn't have a custom Focus tree yet. They usually get attention in all their games.

 

[Achul]

That's why they are small countries silly-

 

[Iskulya]

Minor countries are already dramatically more powerful than they were in history. In reality most did not even have the capacity to manufacture the small arms necessary to support their own army, let alone successfully fund R&D capable of jets, tanks, and nuclear bombs.

Even as a small country like Portugal it's pretty easy to build up a few elite divisions. I have never seen the AI successfully withstand the attack of 4 well designed heavy tank divisions no matter how many divisions they have stacked on a province.

As a minor country you have a few options.

1. Try to blitz other minor countries and annex them, building up your industrial basis so you can complete with the big countries.

2. Play a supporting role for your Great Power allies.

I usually prefer 2, but 1 can be fun with the right countries too. The main issue is that the AI is frustratingly incompetent at managing supply, defending convoys, and destroying submarines.

 

[mpop]

I like playing minor small nations but I hate that Germany and Japan stomps the allies in every game I play. I'm either too busy fighting japan and holding them back but Russia eventually get defeated by Germany...

 

[safe-keeper]

If you ask me, and many others here, they are too strong. You can do way too much with minors compared to what you could in reality, because PDX wanted every nation to be fun to play.

 

[Reman]

Minors are weaker in HoI4 than they are in any other PDS game. This is further amplified by the fact that the game's diplomacy is far more punishing to small nations than larger ones, e.g. the UK would much rather guarantee against Liberia or Albania than Germany or the USSR. Moreover, attacking is really expensive in this game and usually requires planes or tanks to be effective if the enemy has an organized defense. Many nations need to use exploits or near-exploits to get off the ground, like paratroopers, faction swapping, warscore cheesing, puppet sniping, etc.

 

[safe-keeper]

Minors are weaker in HoI4 than they are in any other PDS game.

I assume you're not counting HoI3 ? Yes, they are pretty weak, but my impression is they are pretty accurate for how strong or weak they are historically. I get your point about diplomacy, though.

 

[Vorondil]

To give my opinion about minor nations in the game, they are already more than overpowered in Vanilla compared to Majors Nations.
According to the economic historian Kennedy, the 7 majors nations alone in 1936 had more than 90,5% of the world economic war potential (in game, all 3 type of factories).

If the Vanila game was more realistic, there would be no point at all to play minors outside of multiplayer games.

HOI4 is not Europa Universalis. You don't have centuries to turn shitholes into world powers. HOI4 timeframe is only a bit more than a decade, so we should not expect any change in term of Great Powers. In History, Canada was the only "minor" which achieved to economicaly outproduce a major (Italy), but had already the potential (technologies, car industries etc) to do it.
Guess what? The 1936 "majors" are still very powerfull nations, part of the "G7" (same Great powers than in 1936 with Soviet Union replaced by Canada), and it took a few decades for China to be effectively a Great Power (and India is in the way).

My conclusion : it is pretty WAD that minor nations are boring, and can hardly do anything relevant in HOI4. The best thing a minor nation could do against a major is to defend heroicaly a few months like Finland, but should never been able to invade and defeat a major by itself.

 

[Tacticus101]

I dont think it was very fun being a small nation in WW2 historically.

 

[Orlunu]

I dont think it was very fun being a small nation in WW2 historically.

Laughs disdainfully in Swiss

 

[safe-keeper]

To give my opinion about minor nations in the game, they are already more than overpowered in Vanilla compared to Majors Nations.

Which can get pretty irritating when you go to war against them.

 

[RolandRahn]

No offense intended, but players who do NOT want to play nations that have rather limited resources should simply not play smaller nations.

And small Nations are already overpowered - nations like Belgium or the Republic or Ireland start with 3 research slots - the same number as the Soviet Union.

In realistic model, if a small nation would try to build a tank, it should be a MAJOR effort resulting in something like the Czech vehicles - superior to light tanks like the German Mk. I and Mk. II, but inferior to designs like the Mk. III.

Or, if they spend only limited resources, the result should be the bob semple tank.

But in HOI IV, Ireland can develop a 1940 fighter plane. With a light Aircraft designer providing +10% speed and agility, making it state of the art.

Not saying that small nations should be unable to develop fighter planes and/or tanks, but currently, they are on the same level as majors except the USA or a democratic Germany (who have the option to go for a 6th research slot).

Now, if we want to provide minors with MORE resources, then they are no longer minors.

Would a game where Denmark has the ability to easily stop a German invasion still be a WWII game?

Or if the Benelux states alone could stop any major (France bypassing the Siegfried line or Germany bypassing the Maginot line) - would that still resemble anything that happened/could have happened in 1940?

 

[Josar]

Her is the thing, smalls nations played by the player should have vastly more potential than the AI. So it makes sense to allow the player to have more options with a small country than the AI would under historical AI.

 

[Achul]

Youtubers have conquered the world with Luxemburg, isn't that enough?
Plus the thing is that they shouldn't have anything, if you're so much better than this crappy AI and these abusive manpower mechanics that still make me not want to buy this game then you should be able to realise that "potential". If not, then you obviously lack the potential of the AI or much above it.

Besides much of this potential and any other addition that would be added would and are essentially gaming the system, i.e. some form of light cheating.

 

[Secret Master]

Which can get pretty irritating when you go to war against them.

And it's even more irritating when you realize that certain strategies become viable when they don't make sense historically.

I'm looking at you, Bhutan, Nepal, and Tibet. Japan thanks you for running the focuses for free factories and building tons of infantry kits before the empire comes and takes it all away.