Not so mobile warfare . . .

[Tisifoni12]

As the occupation system has changed, and a few other things I went back to HOI4

To explore occupation, play as Germany.

It's invade Poland time and my invasion grinds to a halt. What I have no oil ? Interesting !

Re-boot the invasion, import more oil from the Soviets, cut the small oil 'lend-lease' supply to sunny Spain, be ready to cut back on air operations once the Polish air force is destroyed.

Invasion bogs down again. Thd invasion begun in August and it is now November. The Poles have air superiority. Historically the Polush air force had around 800 aircraft. The Polush air force is at least half that size again. Lots of British and French aircraft. Have substantial contingents of the French and British air forces been re-located to Poland ? If so, how, for it's not just aircraft and pilots, it's also ground crew, support vehicles, supplies of spare parts, compatible ammunition, etc.

Casualty rates in the air are low it seems, perhaps 1,500 aircraft on each side and daily losses seem to be around 1 - 3 aircraft ?

Should I be doing something different, should I leave the game for a few more months and come back, should I give up on HOI4 and learn instead to play the Cretan Lyra or seek fluency in Japanese ?

Thoughts, advice ?

 

[porta80]

Build more airforce. ~3000-4000 figthers for September 39 schould be your goal. And stockpile some oil before starting the war.
Maybe also check your division templates.

 

[Eisscrat]

If you cannot defeat poland i think there are some major errors in your game.

If you canot get airsuperiority against poland that is realy bad. How many planes you have?

Even without airsuperiority your tankdivisions should break through and conquer poland. It is a matter of days if you manage it manually.

There are many guides for germany. Should read/watch them and try again.

 

[Zauberelefant]

As mentioned, usual culprits are too few fighters and weak armour divisions. Maybe doctrines lacking. Your post is inconclusive, as we don't have anywhere near the info we need.

 

[Bunnytob]

Given that your starting airforce is more or less enough to smash Poland if you have a few factories on fighters from day 1, something definitely does seem to be wrong. The fact that you ran out of oil as Germany in 1939 is also interesting, because you have more than enough time to fill up your reserves beforehand. A save file might be useful for general diagnosis if you can provide that.

 

[sekelsenmat]

Show your tank template, it is probably too small. And build CAS and Fighters and Medium Tanks. I also use Light SP Artillery in the tank template.

Did you use the battle planner to get full planning bonus before declaring war?

Casualty rates in the air are low it seems, perhaps 1,500 aircraft on each side and daily losses seem to be around 1 - 3 aircraft ?

That loses are low is fine. You don't need to decimate the enemy airforce, just a stalemate is more then adequate to get Poland. And assign CAS and TAC, they make your units stronger besides doing direct damage.

By the way: Your fighter aircraft should be upgraded using air XP and also be researched using the fighter designer.

 

[Spookyashell]

Is the game ( combat ) harder in LaR? I have all DLC's exept LaR. And I easily run over Poland without using my tanks and barely use the airforce. I use 200 cas and 200 tac + about 400 int.
I attack Benelux just after poland so i keep my panzer and airforce on the western front at that time.
Is that a no go if I get LaR?

 

[Dalos]

I got the Sea Lion this week.

I attacked Poland at 1938. Quickly after that France and Benelux. Year after that Soviet Union. And finally GB after that. Also took Iran, Greece (Italians declared the war...), Denmark, Romania (wanted that oil for myself), Yugoslavia and almost whole India along the way.

Do not wait too long. After industry, research and annex focuses go for them!

Focus on tanks and fighters. Also support equipment and guns (not top prio since you will capture lots of them when annexing countries...) Also some MOT and CAS.

I never used medium tanks during this campaign. 20 width light tanks were more than enough.

If you struggle, you probably do not have air superiority. If you struggle in Poland, you probably do not use your tanks properly as well.

 

[Tisifoni12]

Do I really need to go into huge detail ?
Must you assume I am a noob/ idiot ?

Infantry: 9 inf, 1 art plus engineers and signals 32 attacking from West, 8 in E Prussia, 8 in Slovakia
2 light divisions: 4 light tanks, 2 mob inf, engineers, recon and maintenance
9 Pz divisions: 3 medium tanks, 1 light, 1 SPA, 2 mob inf, engineers, recon, maintenance (3 elite)
2,000 fighters (2.5 x the entire historical Polish airforce) with about 500 doing defence over Germany
300 CAS

Also have naval bombers over the sea in South Baltic and off German North Sea coast. Minimal force of 6 uboats in North Sea and a couple of light cruisers and 6 destroyers doing convoy protection in the South Baltic.

Have all the Blitzkrieg doctrines up to and including schwehrpunkt. Had lots of fuel stockpiled. Use battleplanner and have all the stuff in the West grouped under Field Marshall

I'm not looking for advice. I'm looking for an answer to how come there are around 2,500 fighters defending Poland,most of which are not Polish aircraft. Have the French air force and RAF moved to Poland, or is this down to instantaneous and huge land lease, or what ?

 

[sekelsenmat]

Infantry: 9 inf, 1 art plus engineers and signals 32 attacking from West, 8 in E Prussia, 8 in Slovakia
2 light divisions: 4 light tanks, 2 mob inf, engineers, recon and maintenance
9 Pz divisions: 3 medium tanks, 1 light, 1 SPA, 2 mob inf, engineers, recon, maintenance (3 elite)

Put a little more stuff into the Panzer divisions, at least until you have 20 or 21 width.

The infantry is fine, it's the same I use.

Have the French air force and RAF moved to Poland, or is this down to instantaneous and huge land lease, or what ?

No land-lease, just the AI moves it's air force where the battle is. They will move back to France/UK once Poland falls, so you won't get rid of them so easily.

 

[Zauberelefant]

Do I really need to go into huge detail ?
Must you assume I am a noob/ idiot ?

Hey, YOU ask for advice and provided basically no Info to start from. That's on you entirely.
Also, my assumptions were correct. Your Armour Divisions were too weak, probably got pierced by the polish AI that nowadays actually builds AT.
Too few fighters, because, it's not just the poles you're fighting, it's all of the allies, and you did not mention your air doctrines.
And your management of fuel, again, that's on you.

I therefore conclude: you are a noob.
Nothing shameful about it, you just fail against the AI, anyone can have a bad day, bring your tanks up to 10x ARM and 4x MOT! Then try again, with fuel.

 

[Frozen Yakman]

The game makes no attempt at simulating the Phoney War. If Poland is in the same faction as France and the UK, then they and their respective empires will attempt to defend their allies to the best of their ability. If they see enemy fighters in a zone, they will send fighters there. If they can get troops to a front line, they will put it into their priority queue and send troops to that front line. This is first and foremost a game and not a simulation, the game does not try and match the historical production numbers for things like number of aircraft produced by X country and Y date.

 

[Dalos]

You can check yourself what planes are in that area and from which country.

And with all due respect - if you cannot take down Poland as Germany, you are noob. And that's ok, many things have changed. No need to be rude about that...

 

[blahmaster6k]

bring your tanks up to 10x ARM and 4x MOT! Then try again, with fuel.

Why would you give him this bad advice? Tanks should always be 40 width. 15 tanks and 5 motorized with mobile warfare, or 13 tanks and 7 motorized with superior firepower are the templates he should be using for tanks.

 

[Tisifoni12]

No land-lease, just the AI moves it's air force where the battle is. They will move back to France/UK once Poland falls, so you won't get rid of them so easily.
[/QUOTE]
How ?
Out of range for French and British fighters to operate over Poland from home air bases and moving them with all their ground support once war had begun would be impractical.
My kind of original point.

 

[Zauberelefant]

Why would you give him this bad advice? Tanks should always be 40 width. 15 tanks and 5 motorized with mobile warfare, or 13 tanks and 7 motorized with superior firepower are the templates he should be using for tanks.

I contest that it's bad advice, it's not the optimized template, but would work. Vanilla does not require 40w to be beaten. I advocate for more 'strong enough' divisions,rather than few 'strongest'.

 

[Zauberelefant]

No land-lease, just the AI moves it's air force where the battle is. They will move back to France/UK once Poland falls, so you won't get rid of them so easily.

How ?
Out of range for French and British fighters to operate over Poland from home air bases and moving them with all their ground support once war had begun would be impractical.
My kind of original point.
[/QUOTE]
It's a game and its mechanics allow just that. Works for players as well.

 

[Tisifoni12]

Hey, YOU ask for advice and provided basically no Info to start from. That's on you entirely.
Also, my assumptions were correct. Your Armour Divisions were too weak, probably got pierced by the polish AI that nowadays actually builds AT.
Too few fighters, because, it's not just the poles you're fighting, it's all of the allies, and you did not mention your air doctrines.
And your management of fuel, again, that's on you.

I therefore conclude: you are a noob.
Nothing shameful about it, you just fail against the AI, anyone can have a bad day, bring your tanks up to 10x ARM and 4x MOT! Then try again, with fuel.

Sorry, was not asking for advice as to what I should do, but advice as to how in hell most if the air forces of Frane and the UK were suddenly operating over Poland. I should have been more specific.

I have yet to re-check but I suspect my panzer divisions aren't too far off their historical counterparts.

1941 Panzer Division comprised 2 - 3 panzer battalions and 4 motorised battalions.

 

[Zauberelefant]

Sorry, was not asking for advice as to what I should do, but advice as to how in hell most if the air forces of Frane and the UK were suddenly operating over Poland. I should have been more specific.

I have yet to re-check but I suspect my panzer divisions aren't too far off their historical counterparts.

1941 Panzer Division comprised 2 - 3 panzer battalions and 4 motorised battalions.

OK, I did not catch your actual question. Answer: it's a game, silly things happen.
And on templates: historical templates do not work well in hoi4.
You're bound to run into trouble with them.

 

[sekelsenmat]

2 light divisions: 4 light tanks, 2 mob inf, engineers, recon and maintenance
9 Pz divisions: 3 medium tanks, 1 light, 1 SPA, 2 mob inf, engineers, recon, maintenance (3 elite)
....
I have yet to re-check but I suspect my panzer divisions aren't too far off their historical counterparts.

The number of tanks is historical, the germans used about 240 tanks per division. But they generally used 4 motorized inf battalions and 2 motorized artillery battalions. The Panzer division had a total manpower of 12000 in 1939, compare that to the manpower of your division.

German Tank Division (1939) – Organization and Structure – Visualization – Military History Visualized – Offical Homepage for the YouTube Channel

militaryhistoryvisualized.com

Poland 1939 (Fall Weiß)

Unfortunately the game combat system has some quirks and it has been my experience (and clearly of many other people), that too small divisions, bellow 20 width are just weak and nearly useless for attacking in this game. The german Panzer division did have a width of 22 (4 larm, 4 inf, 2 m-art), but this size generates the "combat width exceeded" penalties, so you have to use 20, 26, 27 or 40 width... I tend to prefer 26 or 27 as a compromise between historical accuracy and usefulness.