Not enough National Focuses until 1945?

[mdw1985]

Hi there!

After reviewing some focus trees of the Majors, i found out, that there are nations, which have very few national focusses to accomplish compared to others:

Japan has 44 national focusses, if i counted correctly. If you reduce this number by the excluded alternatives in the tree, you get 40 national focusses in total. If you continiously set national focusses from the beginning with a duration of 70 days, Japan will run out of focusses in 1943.

GB on the other side has 75 focusses with 3 alternative choices, so you can accomplish 72 national focusses, which is almost double the amount, that Japan has.

Germany has 54 national focusses with 6 alternative choices, which makes a total of 48 national focusses, which can be accomplished. They run out of focusses in early 1945.

So my questions are:

1st Are there still some focusses added to some countries (Germany, Italy, Japan) before the release, to create more diversity in gameplay?

2nd: Is it still valid, that national focusses take longer, when at war? I had the feeling, that it was also 70 days in war from seeing WWW.

3rd Isn't GB getting too powerful with lots of focusses compared to other majors since each focus seems to grant quite some benefits?

4th Are the national focusses reworked, when the balancing of the game is in progress?

Maybe @podcat or @Johan could answer this!

Thanks!

 

[Kozer]

In response to when they run out...

Not all focuses will take 70 days. Some take longer.
Just because a nation has more doesn't mean it will be stronger.

 

[mdw1985]

In response to when they run out...

Not all focuses will take 70 days. Some take longer.
Just because a nation has more doesn't mean it will be stronger.

Must habe missed that! Thanks for clarifying it! On the other side, diversity still is a thing, since it can make you more flexible in game...

 

[Denkt]

National focuses cost 1 political point per day while you are "researching" it so it may be a good idea to wait with focuses and build up the needed political points to make a law switch or change to a critical tech team.

 

[Kozer]

Must habe missed that! Thanks for clarifying it! On the other side, diversity still is a thing, since it can make you more flexible in game...

I think the purge for the SU takes like 500+ or something.
It was in a stream I just can't remember correctly.

 

[Bernard Black]

I haven't looked that closely at the Focus Tree but I and a lot of others observed in the WWW videos, that Germany has reached 2000PP and seems to have no worthwile focus to spend them on in 1942. So it does seem to me that the Focus Trees run out at the midgame. I imagine worthwile focuses at this point in time would also be very ahistorical/fantasy.

Thinking about what the german player could need at this stage in the war. Lets say Naval Factories to challenge the RN, so imagine a Focus for Germany.

Something Like:
Conditions: Country=Germany
Own all the States around the Baltic

Effect: Every State around the Baltic gets 2 Naval Factories

Never mind the balance for this now, but while i could imagine a Focus like this worthwile in 1943 for Germany, it would be very ahistorical and very circumstantial. I think late game focuses need to be along these lines but i am not sure people would like that.

Regards

 

[RVallant]

IIRC it takes longer to research them when you're at war. So, for Japan, who usually is at war pretty early on, you have less time to get on with a larger Focus pool, particularly compared to Britain. Even then, the UK is going to have to make some tough choices I reckon.

 

[FOARP]

Hi there!

After reviewing some focus trees of the Majors, i found out, that there are nations, which have very few national focusses to accomplish compared to others:

View attachment 161347
Japan has 44 national focusses, if i counted correctly. If you reduce this number by the excluded alternatives in the tree, you get 40 national focusses in total. If you continiously set national focusses from the beginning with a duration of 70 days, Japan will run out of focusses in 1943.

GB on the other side has 75 focusses with 3 alternative choices, so you can accomplish 72 national focusses, which is almost double the amount, that Japan has.

Germany has 54 national focusses with 6 alternative choices, which makes a total of 48 national focusses, which can be accomplished. They run out of focusses in early 1945.

So my questions are:

1st Are there still some focusses added to some countries (Germany, Italy, Japan) before the release, to create more diversity in gameplay?

2nd: Is it still valid, that national focusses take longer, when at war? I had the feeling, that it was also 70 days in war from seeing WWW.

3rd Isn't GB getting too powerful with lots of focusses compared to other majors since each focus seems to grant quite some benefits?

4th Are the national focusses reworked, when the balancing of the game is in progress?

Maybe @podcat or @Johan could answer this!

Thanks!

Dude, please stop posting questions to which the answer is always the same: the game is in Beta, there is no point asking about game-balance when the game is still being balanced.

 

[LordOfWar16]

National Focuses are only guidelines anyway. They provide shortcuts to certain things and function as an guideline for the AI. You dont need national Focuses for anything, so even if you eventually run out, even tho i doubt you will run out before 1945, it really isnt that big of a deal. It is an feature to help you out early/mid game.

 

[mdw1985]

Dude, please stop posting questions to which the answer is always the same: the game is in Beta, there is no point asking about game-balance when the game is still being balanced.

Haha, what??? but now seriously: stop posting comments like this, if you don't want to contribute to that topic. First, stop behaving like an admin, which you are not. Second, my questions are legit, since they are development related.

Cheers

 

[LordOfWar16]

Haha, what??? but now seriously: stop posting comments like this, if you don't want to contribute to that topic. First, stop behaving like an admin, which you are not. Second, my questions are legit, since they are development related.

Cheers

Still wouldnt hurt to now and then use the search function before posting questions to be honnest tho. Quiet alot of your questions if not most of them can be answered by an quick search within 1 minute, not this one tho.

I am happy to help people and answer their questions, but alot of the times i find their questions already answered by the devs within seconds and quote them for them. Most of the pictures i add to my answers i usualy get from the world war wednesday streams or even the dev diaries which usualy already cover alot of questions asked aswell.

 

[FOARP]

Haha, what??? but now seriously: stop posting comments like this, if you don't want to contribute to that topic. First, stop behaving like an admin, which you are not. Second, my questions are legit, since they are development related.

Cheers

I am contributing to the topic. I'm telling you that the answer to this question is the same as the answer to various other questions that have been asked about game-balance: the game is in beta, there's just no point asking questions about balance.

I'm not pretending to be an admin. I am, however, pointing out that common sense would tell you the answer to this question without having to ask it.

 

[Vidkjaer]

I haven't looked that closely at the Focus Tree but I and a lot of others observed in the WWW videos, that Germany has reached 2000PP and seems to have no worthwile focus to spend them on in 1942. So it does seem to me that the Focus Trees run out at the midgame. I imagine worthwile focuses at this point in time would also be very ahistorical/fantasy.

Thinking about what the german player could need at this stage in the war. Lets say Naval Factories to challenge the RN, so imagine a Focus for Germany.

Something Like:
Conditions: Country=Germany
Own all the States around the Baltic

Effect: Every State around the Baltic gets 2 Naval Factories

Never mind the balance for this now, but while i could imagine a Focus like this worthwile in 1943 for Germany, it would be very ahistorical and very circumstantial. I think late game focuses need to be along these lines but i am not sure people would like that.

Regards

Daniel has chosen not to spent his PP wisely. They can also be used to influence nations towards your faction. I think many of the diplomatic options costs PP.

Instead of declare war against Romania and make the harsh occupation law on them for their oil (and spent more manpower on suppression) he should have influenced them to the Axis faction and trade for the oil. Costs CF sure, but he has plenty off them.

 

[Bernard Black]

National Focuses are only guidelines anyway. They provide shortcuts to certain things and function as an guideline for the AI. You dont need national Focuses for anything, so even if you eventually run out, even tho i doubt you will run out before 1945, it really isnt that big of a deal.

Don't you think that it would be bad, for a main feature to loose its meaning halfway through the game? I will look out for the german focus in the next WWW but i am pretty sure, that Daniel didn't find anything worthwile to do. Sure you don't need them to do anything but why did they bother with them if they are inconsequential? Would it be fair to describe your position that you think NF are there to shape the early game towards buildup and war while later on the player is supposed to create his path with the core mechanics alone? That would be a valid point. I guess i need to think about that. I also think a definite opinion would also ony be possible after playing some games myself, but until then we only have the WWW to go by.

Daniel has chosen not to spent his PP wisely. They can also be used to influence nations towards your faction. I think many of the diplomatic options costs PP.

Instead of declare war against Romania and make the harsh occupation law on them for their oil (and spent more manpower on suppression) he should have influenced them to the Axis faction and trade for the oil. Costs CF sure, but he has plenty off them.

I accept the point that Daniel has a lot to do very rapidly and the sensible use of PP was obviously one of the first things to be thrown under the bus. However IIRC his Focus Tree has almost no options left for him. Either one takes the position that NF are only there to shape the early to midgame as i described above or they need some balance and more useful lategame focuses. Either position is fine by me as long as its deliberate. Maybe one WWW game is just misleading my Impression but it's a concern I have and I would like to hear someone, peferably a dev address this in a few words.

Regards

 

[HerrWeltkrieg]

I am contributing to the topic. I'm telling you that the answer to this question is the same as the answer to various other questions that have been asked about game-balance: the game is in beta, there's just no point asking questions about balance.

I'm not pretending to be an admin. I am, however, pointing out that common sense would tell you the answer to this question without having to ask it.

No this statement is just simply wrong, forums like this are two direction channels devs to public, public to devs. People are debating and if the devs are clever ( which PDX guys usually are ) they will pay attention since an issue might arise that will remind them of doing something or incite them to rework other stuff etc. Please do consider this as well.

Edit: Especially BEFORE they will release the game and they are still in balancing stage.

 

[chaostk]

National Focuses are only guidelines anyway. They provide shortcuts to certain things and function as an guideline for the AI. You dont need national Focuses for anything, so even if you eventually run out, even tho i doubt you will run out before 1945, it really isnt that big of a deal.

Some do give you things that you can't get otherwise, like extra research slots, more factory slots in some regions (some research also to that, but they and focus effect stack), reducing the ahead penalty for specific research if you're planning to do them earlier.

 

[Victor Cortez]

I suppose it's really a matter of balancing.
Some countries (France, UK) start with a malus that is then eliminated via Focus for example, or the single focuses might be more powerful for some countries than others.

 

[LordOfWar16]

Some do give you things that you can't get otherwise, like extra research slots, more factory slots in some regions (some research also to that, but they and focus effect stack), reducing the ahead penalty for specific research if you're planning to do them earlier.

i know that, but those are only a fraction of the goals and are meant for early game anyway, to help you build up. Sure, there are also some that give or remove a national spirit, like the long lance torpedo one for the japanese, but they arent crutial to the game aswell. Most of them (like the navy, army, airforce focuses) are only there to help you certain things quicker, since they reduce the ahead of time penalty and may give you some army/navy/airforce experience.

My point isnt that it ok to completly run out mid game. My point is that you probably wont run out mid game and even if it isnt the end of the world. Most of them are simply shortcuts to certain things as i said. If you enact the "Battleship Focus" NF you still can push Carriers, it simply takes a bit longer than if you enacted "Carrier Focus".

National Focuses are more an early to mid game feature to A: guide the AI since it isnt scripted and B: help you shape your path early on in the game the way you want it faster. Getting Wargoals that way for example, which would otherwise take a year and alot more political power or reducing ahead of time penalties for certain technology. Or of course, as you said, help you build up your industry early on. Most if not all players will (or should) most likely rush the industry effort and research slot focuses as fast as possible anyway, since they make the most sense early on.

Daniel has chosen not to spent his PP wisely. They can also be used to influence nations towards your faction. I think many of the diplomatic options costs PP.

Instead of declare war against Romania and make the harsh occupation law on them for their oil (and spent more manpower on suppression) he should have influenced them to the Axis faction and trade for the oil. Costs CF sure, but he has plenty off them.

He couldnt influence Romania into his faction since they were super neutral. They wouldnt even join the allies at all because of that. They would only join a faction if the other side attacked them. Daniel seems to be more of an World Conquest guy in HoI IV anyway rather than an diplomat.