NOT A BUG: Troops disappear at midnight

[unmerged(15711)]

Troops disappear at midnight

i posted in general forum under "troops with a curfew???" on the off chance it wasn't a bug, but i think it must be. (i'd link, but don't know how)

i have 3300 troops (90% of army) disappear over one hour at midnight. over the preceeding 12 hours of the same battle, i had lost ~100, which seems normal.

I'm playing Germany, 1936, 1.03b, very hard, furious.

i'm invading Penza to Saransk, with 36 divisions (arm, mech, mot) in supply. Russia has 100 divisions, mainly militia.

i arrive at June 5, 11:00 am, and slowly lose troops as battle rages. then poof, 3300 guys gone at midnight, spread over all the divisions. it's not attrition, or combat mods, weather, etc. or if it is, somehting is VERY WRONG!! (or i am VERY stupid?)

total guys 3600 to ~3500 in 12 hours, july 5
total guys 3500 to ~200 in 1 hour at july 6

i have a saved game just before the batttle starts.

 

[unmerged(15711)]

OK, so i lied, it's actually at 1:00 am.

OK, so i lied, it's actually at 1:00 am.

i'm a total newbie at forums, so any help / suggestions would be appreciated. i've read most of FAQ's, known bugs, rules for posting, etc. if it has previously been discussed, can you please point me in the right dirction. and I hope i'm not doing something to offend, but i've noticed most other posts get replys soon, particularly about possible bugs.

if my situation is normal, can anyone expalin the circumstances that make it happen? i'd be happy to forward game, i'd really like to figure this out. AFAIK, this doesn't happen with every multi-day battle. Will every time with THIS particular battle. Has happened previously in my current game from TULA to RYAZAN, IIRC (same thing, happened every time, so i aborted attack from saved game, and tried something else). has happened in other games, i think mainly as GER vs. USSR.

a couple possible causes i thought about:
- attrition losses accumulated over 6 week travel time and applied all at once because multi-day battle
- accumulated 6 week forest, rain and other penalties applied all at once because of multi-day battle
- USSR militia considered full org. inf. super-troops for 1 hour


I logged losses in case i'm not explaining properly.

.........................Germany......................................USSR
Time.......Total Men.........losses.................total men........losses
11.............3600............................................10200
12.............3590.................10.......................10141............59
13.............3573.................17.......................10087............54
14.............3567...................6.......................10036............51
15.............3553.................14........................9981.............55
16.............3545...................8........................9929.............52
17.............3534.................10........................9873.............56
18.............3523.................11........................9850.............23
19.............3509.................14........................9823.............27
20.............3495.................14........................9797.............26
21.............3478.................17........................9769.............28
22.............3463.................15........................9739.............30
23.............3446.................17........................9709.............30
00.............3436.................10........................9682.............27
1..............199................3237.....................9651.............31
2................190....................9........................9591.............60
3................176...................14.......................9534.............57
4................164...................12.......................9479.............55
5................155.....................9.......................9427.............52
6................145....................10......................9374.............53
7................136....................9........................9326.............48
8................129....................7........................9270.............56
9................114....................15......................9217.............53
10..............102....................12......................9168.............49
11...............91.....................11......................9117.............51
12...............79.....................12......................9068.............49
13...............70......................9.......................9022.............46
14...............61......................9.......................8982.............40
15...............51.....................10......................8941.............41
16...............42......................9.......................8907.............34
17...............33......................9.......................8873.............34
18...............20.....................13......................8862.............11
19...............13.......................7......................8850.............12
etc...
BTW, is there any way to create a table?

 

[Vulture]

you could use the CODE tag for tables... It still isn't perfect though

Any people have an idea considering this bug?

 

[unmerged(14096)]

Originally posted by Vulture
you could use the CODE tag for tables... It still isn't perfect though

Any people have an idea considering this bug?

I haven't seen anything like yet, and I've got pretty extensive experience with the game at this point. Does it always happen to the same units? I assume you have a save?

 

[unmerged(15711)]

Happens every time (to me at least) from save game. it's not divisions in their entirety disappearing, losses are across each unit throughout divisions.

i have save game at ~5:00 am july 5,
attack starts at 11:00am july 5
at 1:00am july 6, troops go.

the time (s) i've noticed before, ie TULA to RYAZAN same thing, happened every time from saved game as well.

 

[Tel]

I have noticed that losses due to being out of supply during a retreat are applied at 1 am each day. I think that attrition from low infra provinces is the same. Obviuosly I have never seen attrition be this bad however. But it sounds to me that for some reason super attrition happened to you.

 

[Vulture]

Correct, I don't see how it is a bug... I'm having a hard time believing full strenghth divisions getting wiped out... Losses are calculated daily.

 

[unmerged(15711)]

but i'm in supply, going from my province, which is connected by land to capital, i thought attrition didn't apply?
i'm not retreating,
losses for all my battles seem to be calculated hourly based upon what is shown in side bar during battle. i monitor what goes on to see if i need to retreat, particularly during sea battles. doesn't happen for all multi-day battles.
if it is super attrition, say 6 weeks worth applied all at once, should it be that way? does that mean if i win battle before 1am, i don't get attrition loss at all?
i would think it should be attrition losses calculated daily, as you mention.
could the fact i'm attacking affect the display of the attrition losses?

edit: divisions remain full strength if i cancel movement just before battle.

 

[unmerged(15711)]

Originally posted by Gaffer
... does that mean if i win battle before 1am, i don't get attrition loss at all?

the answer is...yes

wanted to know what happened if i won before 1am, so i loaded as SU, disbanded some inf. divisions with org, leaving militia with low or no org. and about 8900 strength and played as germany 4 times.

2 of 4 germany won at 22:00 or 23:00
german strength went from 3600 to ~3500 and stayed constant past 1am the next day.
SU strength started at 8900, didn't catch last strength before his retreat.

the other 2 of 4, germany didn't win before 1:00 am, strength went from ~3500 to ~560 at 1:00 am similar to the original


if attrition, why would amount of losses change based on SU strength it's different than the fairly consistant loss to 200 with original.

Correct, I don't see how it is a bug... I'm having a hard time believing full strenghth divisions getting wiped out... Losses are calculated daily.

you may not believe, but it's happening to me. as mentioned, it's not the entire division that disappears, its massive losses throughout all divisions.

i'd be happy to send my save game to anyone for verification, or better yet, to explain to me what is happening.

 

[unmerged(13914)]

Not a bug, loss rate proportional to size of army

I found this same problem and someone helpfully pointed me to this thread. See here for some experiments I did while writing an AAR.