NOT A BUG: Sieged rebel province can declare independance

[unmerged(5875)]

ver 1.03 - one of the fixes still doesnt work

The fix that stops besieged rebel provinces from becoming new nations didnt work. i watched Tunisia, cryneia (mispelled i know), and the 3rd middle north african province that is also a nation (cant remember what the nations name is) declare independence from Mameluks while the mameluks were in the middle of seiging the province to take it back. all 3 did this, in the space of 5 years.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

Re: ver 1.03 - one of the fixes still doesnt work

Originally posted by Darth Vader
The fix that stops besieged rebel provinces from becoming new nations didnt work. i watched Tunisia, cryneia (mispelled i know), and the 3rd middle north african province that is also a nation (cant remember what the nations name is) declare independence from Mameluks while the mameluks were in the middle of seiging the province to take it back. all 3 did this, in the space of 5 years.

Were they actively seiging (has more men than the fortress & has little cannon next to army) or were they just screening (fewer men & no cannon graphic)? I have seen 1.03 provinces rebel when screened but not when beseiged.

 

[unmerged(5875)]

They had cannons, i dont remember exact numbers, but i do remember at least one of the times, the mamluks had over 10k soldiers (and cannon) sieging a lvl1 fortress when they provinence declared independence.

 

[unmerged(5875)]

BTW, is anyone aware of the odds per turn of a provinance going independent or changing allegiance to someone else? It seems to be a low chance, since i have seen a couple provinences go (either way) after less than 6 months rebel, while most (unfortently, the most are Golden Horde provinences i wanted to come to me as moscovy stay rebels for 2 years or so, until they are retaken by government forces finally.

 

[State Machine]

I believe the fix was that defections would not occur during a siege.

No details on the %'s, but a revolting province will not declare independence until it has been in revolt for at least one year. A defection requires a province to have been in revolt for five years.

 

[unmerged(5875)]

yes, that is working, i havent seen one provinece defect while under siege to someone else. i did notice something else though, when a province declares independence, and their was someone (but not the country who owned the province) seiging the rebels, they KEEP seiging the rebels until the win. what i am not sure of, is if anything happens when that other power finishes its siege. i only noticed it once, but i think (could be wrong here) that the province goes rebel sometimes after that 3rd power finishes its seige, it would explain why so many newly declared countries keep getting toppled by rebels 4 months after they are founded at least. I'll try to keep a closer eye out for that, to see if that is happening or not. But i do know that few revolting countries survive a year because they either A) are held under siege by a 4rd power sieging it, and they cant build any armies, and B) they start with no money, and almost never any troops, because they went independant long after the rebels who seized the provinance have left. Would it be possible to give rebeling countries some cash when they declare independence, or perhaps assign any rebels within one or two provinces distance to that new country? so they start out with something, because otherwise the only acheivement that most revolting new countries accomplish is to mess up the owning countries BB, which isnt necessarily a big deal, since i have noticed i can vassalize, and annex low ranked countries (ranking less than 80 or so) with even a "rather bad reputation" as long as i am in the top 5 rankings.

 

[unmerged(5875)]

ps: thanx State Machine, for that info on when the rebel provinces will do something

 

[State Machine]

Another useful trick is to start to liberate a vassal (there is a "confirm" button) to see what provinces are prone to creating an independent country. This tells you which revolts are necessary to deal with quickly, and which can wait a while.

You describe (I think) a bug where with independence and defection, a province stays in rebel control (usually).

 

[unmerged(4594)]

So, what should I report as bugs? Rebel-controled provinces sieged by state troops are defecting to other countries?
Does anyone has a saved game to send to me?

 

[unmerged(5875)]

ok, i got a better look at the declaring new country by rebels, while someone besides the owner of the province (before the rebellion) is seiging it. Greece rebelled from Turkey, taking 4 provinces with them, and denmark was seiging Morea, they lifted the siege the month after the Greeks declared indepence, and the province, which WAS showing a greek ownership flag for that 1st month of indepence (while the danes were sieging it) became rebel controlled the day the Danes raised their siege (since the computer usually only moves its armies at the beginning of the month). I dont have a saved game to send u, cause all my saved games (5 of them, counting both saved and old saved) are corrupted. u start the game, and it crashed EU2 before it finishes loading. This happened around 1571 (earliest saved game that wont load) till the latest saved fame in 1578 as Russia. I dont know what the deal is, but i cant access any of the games. had to start a new game. Might be some kind of bug, not sure. if sending u the saved (corrupted) game will do any good, let me know where to send it.

 

[unmerged(5875)]

actually, sorry, the corruption appears in game saved in 1586 or 1587 i beleive, and runs thru 5 named (ie: not auto saved) games thru 1604. same thing every time. try to load it, and entire game crashes before it finishes loading.

 

[State Machine]

Originally posted by VKV
So, what should I report as bugs? Rebel-controled provinces sieged by state troops are defecting to other countries?
Does anyone has a saved game to send to me?

1) Liberated vassals. If rebel controlled, they stay rebel controlled in the new country. If besieged by rebels, the revolt continues.

I'm not sure if this is a bug or not.

2) Defecting provinces. I am not sure, but I think a province that defects stays rebel controlled. This needs confirmed (can't do it myself right now).

If this is confirmed, then I think that is a bug for sure.

3) AI Latency. That is, when province ownership changes, a besieging army will not lift the siege until the beginning of the next month. Actually I have seen longer. And this is really a larger issue. There are lots of graphical latencies as well.

A bug. Probably already in bugzilla (by me). But a minor bug to be xure in regards to the besieging.

 

[Duuk]

Provinces shouldn't be able to declare independence when under siege, no matter who is sieging them. I've had my whole war aims (taking Baden from Burgundy) blown to shards because while I was sieging Baden it declared independence. Now I took the no CB stab hit for attacking Burgundy, and I'm going to have to take it again for Baden, and the BB hit for both.

Not a HUGE bug, and not really earth shaking. I'd rate it "mildly annoying".

Duuk

 

[unmerged(4594)]

From what Johan has said, a sieged rebel-controled province should not be able to defect to another country, but it should be able to declare independance and form a new country. Don't know why though, and maybe that should be corrected in next patch.

VKV

 

[Nikolai II]

Originally posted by State Machine
I believe the fix was that defections would not occur during a siege.

No details on the %'s, but a revolting province will not declare independence until it has been in revolt for at least one year. A defection requires a province to have been in revolt for five years.

When does a province defect and when does it declare independance?
In my started 1.03 game as Sweden Lithuania had annexed T.O.
Denmark pulled me into a war with Lithuania that I had no intention of prosecuting, but seeing as Estonia was rebel controlled I though I would help them to independance and so I walked in an army and routed the Lith. everytime they would siege the province and then I left.

The province did not form T.O., it defected to Muscowy, but when I took it from Muscowy I was given the option to liberate Estonia as a new T.O.
What gives? Or should I start a thread of my own instead of hi-jacking someone elses?