Japanese Naval OOB - BB/CV/CA
This post and the previous, US, one, replace my original posts for these nations. The original posts were not thorough - these are better.
1936 Scenario Japanese Naval OOB suggested changes- BB, CV, CA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Change in starting forces:
Fuso (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Yamashiro (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Ise (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Hyuga (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Naka (basic cruiser to pre-war cruiser)
Add to starting forces:
Izumo (pre war cruiser)
Tenryu (pre-war cruiser)
Furutaka (basic cruiser)
Notes:
The Fuso and Ise classes are overrated as 350mm+ battleships. They are not comparable to the Nelson, Nagato, California or Maryland classes. A better match would be the Queen Elizabeth or ‘R’ classes, which are rated as 150mm+ Battleships. After I’ve done each nation I will add another post outlining the reasons for some of my classification choices.
Naka was the sister of Sendai and Jintsu. I think pre-war cruiser is the best rating for the class.
Furutaka was the sister of Kako. I can’t see why she was left out.
Izumo was a coast defence ship,with an main armament of four 8 in and fourteen 6 inch guns and a displacement of 9750 tons. She was converted to a training ship in 1943. Pre-war cruiser seems the best rating for her.
Tenryu was the sister of Tatsuta and served until sunk in 1942.
1939 Scenario Japanese Naval OOB suggested changes- BB, CV, CA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Change in starting forces:
Fuso (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Yamashiro (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Ise (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Hyuga (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Hiryu (improved carrier to basic carrier)
Naka (basic cruiser to pre-war cruiser)
Tatsuta (improved cruiser to pre-war cruiser)
Add to starting forces:
Izumo (pre war cruiser)
Tenryu (pre-war cruiser)
Furutaka (basic cruiser)
Add toJapanese techs:
Improved carrier hull
Improved carrier propulsion
BB Belt Armour 50mm+
BB Deck Armour 20mm+
Improved Battleship Hull
Improved Battleship Propulsion
Naval Battleship Gun 400mm+
Plus, if the Yamato class is to be rated advanced
Improved Battleship
Advanced warship design
Advanced battleship hull
Advanced battleship propulsion
Notes:
See 1936 scenario.
Tatsuta was an old cruiser, launched in 1918. I don’t see why she has jumped from pre-war cruiser (in the 1936 scenario) to improved cruiser.
The Hiryu was 21,900 tons full load, 34.3 knots, and 64 aircraft. She really was not good enough to be rated improved.
The Shokaku completed 8 August 1941 and the Zuikaku completed 25 September 1941, so they do not need to be in the commenced builds. However, given the historical completion date of Shokaku the Japanese can not complete the necessary tech research, and her, in time. They should at least be given Improved Carrier Hull and Improved Carrier Propulsion. Then it is possible to complete Shokaku, by immediately starting Improved Carrier and starting Shokaku as soon as the tech research is complete.
The description of the tech Advanced Battleship gives figures of 60,000+ tons, 32 knots and 400+mm guns. It gives the Yamato class as an example. The Yamato was 69,990 tons, 27 knots, 450mm guns. In the 1941 scenario she is rated as an improved, not advanced, battleship (incidentally she completed 16 December 1941, but 4 days doesn’t really matter).
In this scenario as it stands the Japanese are nowhere near having the techs for an improved, let alone advanced, battleship. To complete in December 1941 the Yamato needs to be started in Jan 1940. Four months is not long enough to complete the missing research. Actually I think the Yamato is best left as improved, not advanced. But even then the Japanese should be given extra techs for this scenario.
1941 Scenario Japanese Naval OOB suggested changes- BB, CV, CA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Change in starting forces:
Fuso (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Yamashiro (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Ise (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Hyuga (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Akagi (pre-war carrier to basic carrier)
Kagi (pre-war carrier to basic carrier)
Soryu (improved carrier to basic carrier)
Hiryu (improved carrier to basic carrier)
Naka (basic cruiser to pre-war cruiser)
Tatsuta (improved cruiser to pre-war cruiser)
Add to starting forces:
Zuiho (basic carrier)
Izumo (pre war cruiser)
Tenryu (pre-war cruiser)
Furutaka (basic cruiser)
Remove from starting forces:
Shoho(improved carrier)
Katori (improved cruiser)
Kashii (improved cruiser)
Kashima (improved cruiser)
Add to commenced builds:
Shoho (basic carrier) completes 16 January 1942
Junyo (basic carrier) completes 5 May 1942
Hiyo (basic carrier) completes 31 July 1942
Ryuho (basic carrier) completes 28 November 1942
Mushashi (improved or advanced battleship) completes 5 August 1942
Notes:
See 1936 and 1939 scenarios.
The ratings for Kaga, Akagi and Soryu should be changed to what they are in the 1939 scenario. Basic carrier is the best rating for all three.
The Shoho completed on the date shown. She was a small carrier, with a complement of 30 aircraft, so at present is best rated a basic carrier. Light carrier would be better. Zuiho, her sister, complete 27 December 1940. The Ryuho had a complement of 31 aircraft and would also be better shown as a light carrier.
The Junyo and Hiyo carried 53 aircraft. They completed as shown, well before the 4 February 1943 date of a carrier commenced at the start of the scenario.
See the discussion under the 1939 scenario for the rating of Mushashi. However the class is rated, Musashi needs to in the current builds at the start of the 1941 scenario, as she completed 5 August 1942, and a battleship commenced at the start of the 1941 scenario does not complete until August 1943.
The Katori, Kashima and Kashii were small ships, armed with four 5.5 inch guns. They would be better counted as destroyers.
Michael
This post and the previous, US, one, replace my original posts for these nations. The original posts were not thorough - these are better.
1936 Scenario Japanese Naval OOB suggested changes- BB, CV, CA
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Change in starting forces:
Fuso (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Yamashiro (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Ise (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Hyuga (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Naka (basic cruiser to pre-war cruiser)
Add to starting forces:
Izumo (pre war cruiser)
Tenryu (pre-war cruiser)
Furutaka (basic cruiser)
Notes:
The Fuso and Ise classes are overrated as 350mm+ battleships. They are not comparable to the Nelson, Nagato, California or Maryland classes. A better match would be the Queen Elizabeth or ‘R’ classes, which are rated as 150mm+ Battleships. After I’ve done each nation I will add another post outlining the reasons for some of my classification choices.
Naka was the sister of Sendai and Jintsu. I think pre-war cruiser is the best rating for the class.
Furutaka was the sister of Kako. I can’t see why she was left out.
Izumo was a coast defence ship,with an main armament of four 8 in and fourteen 6 inch guns and a displacement of 9750 tons. She was converted to a training ship in 1943. Pre-war cruiser seems the best rating for her.
Tenryu was the sister of Tatsuta and served until sunk in 1942.
1939 Scenario Japanese Naval OOB suggested changes- BB, CV, CA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Change in starting forces:
Fuso (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Yamashiro (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Ise (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Hyuga (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Hiryu (improved carrier to basic carrier)
Naka (basic cruiser to pre-war cruiser)
Tatsuta (improved cruiser to pre-war cruiser)
Add to starting forces:
Izumo (pre war cruiser)
Tenryu (pre-war cruiser)
Furutaka (basic cruiser)
Add toJapanese techs:
Improved carrier hull
Improved carrier propulsion
BB Belt Armour 50mm+
BB Deck Armour 20mm+
Improved Battleship Hull
Improved Battleship Propulsion
Naval Battleship Gun 400mm+
Plus, if the Yamato class is to be rated advanced
Improved Battleship
Advanced warship design
Advanced battleship hull
Advanced battleship propulsion
Notes:
See 1936 scenario.
Tatsuta was an old cruiser, launched in 1918. I don’t see why she has jumped from pre-war cruiser (in the 1936 scenario) to improved cruiser.
The Hiryu was 21,900 tons full load, 34.3 knots, and 64 aircraft. She really was not good enough to be rated improved.
The Shokaku completed 8 August 1941 and the Zuikaku completed 25 September 1941, so they do not need to be in the commenced builds. However, given the historical completion date of Shokaku the Japanese can not complete the necessary tech research, and her, in time. They should at least be given Improved Carrier Hull and Improved Carrier Propulsion. Then it is possible to complete Shokaku, by immediately starting Improved Carrier and starting Shokaku as soon as the tech research is complete.
The description of the tech Advanced Battleship gives figures of 60,000+ tons, 32 knots and 400+mm guns. It gives the Yamato class as an example. The Yamato was 69,990 tons, 27 knots, 450mm guns. In the 1941 scenario she is rated as an improved, not advanced, battleship (incidentally she completed 16 December 1941, but 4 days doesn’t really matter).
In this scenario as it stands the Japanese are nowhere near having the techs for an improved, let alone advanced, battleship. To complete in December 1941 the Yamato needs to be started in Jan 1940. Four months is not long enough to complete the missing research. Actually I think the Yamato is best left as improved, not advanced. But even then the Japanese should be given extra techs for this scenario.
1941 Scenario Japanese Naval OOB suggested changes- BB, CV, CA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Change in starting forces:
Fuso (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Yamashiro (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Ise (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Hyuga (350mm+ battleship to 150mm+ battleship)
Akagi (pre-war carrier to basic carrier)
Kagi (pre-war carrier to basic carrier)
Soryu (improved carrier to basic carrier)
Hiryu (improved carrier to basic carrier)
Naka (basic cruiser to pre-war cruiser)
Tatsuta (improved cruiser to pre-war cruiser)
Add to starting forces:
Zuiho (basic carrier)
Izumo (pre war cruiser)
Tenryu (pre-war cruiser)
Furutaka (basic cruiser)
Remove from starting forces:
Shoho(improved carrier)
Katori (improved cruiser)
Kashii (improved cruiser)
Kashima (improved cruiser)
Add to commenced builds:
Shoho (basic carrier) completes 16 January 1942
Junyo (basic carrier) completes 5 May 1942
Hiyo (basic carrier) completes 31 July 1942
Ryuho (basic carrier) completes 28 November 1942
Mushashi (improved or advanced battleship) completes 5 August 1942
Notes:
See 1936 and 1939 scenarios.
The ratings for Kaga, Akagi and Soryu should be changed to what they are in the 1939 scenario. Basic carrier is the best rating for all three.
The Shoho completed on the date shown. She was a small carrier, with a complement of 30 aircraft, so at present is best rated a basic carrier. Light carrier would be better. Zuiho, her sister, complete 27 December 1940. The Ryuho had a complement of 31 aircraft and would also be better shown as a light carrier.
The Junyo and Hiyo carried 53 aircraft. They completed as shown, well before the 4 February 1943 date of a carrier commenced at the start of the scenario.
See the discussion under the 1939 scenario for the rating of Mushashi. However the class is rated, Musashi needs to in the current builds at the start of the 1941 scenario, as she completed 5 August 1942, and a battleship commenced at the start of the 1941 scenario does not complete until August 1943.
The Katori, Kashima and Kashii were small ships, armed with four 5.5 inch guns. They would be better counted as destroyers.
Michael
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