Norwegian Merchant Fleet (Notraship)

[Simoleum]

Hello.

Is the gigantic Norwegian merchant fleet represented in the game?
Historically Norway had the 4th largest merchant fleet in the World, and several high-ranking figures stressed the importance it played. For example Philip Noel-Baker, who said that "The first great defeat for Hitler was the Battle of Britain. It was a turning point in history. If we had not had the Norwegian fleet of tankers on our side, we should not have had the aviation spirit to put our Hawker Hurricanes and our Spitfires into the sky. Without the Norwegian merchant fleet, Britain and the allies would have lost the war.", and Churchill himself said it was "worth more than a million soldiers".

Ships that were sailing across the globe didn't return to harbor to now occupied Norway, but instead got merged to form Notraship, the World's largest shippings company. They operated over 1000 vessels.

Is this represented in the game somehow, to make Norway more important than a coast with marine bases? Perhaps by a large stockpile of Convoys, or similar? If not, should it be in the game somehow, and how?

EDIT:
Additional info:
Historically around 15% of the total fleet was within the German-controlled area and thus lost to the Allies; the battle was for the remaining 85% sailing worldwide.

 

[Heruure]

if it respresented, dont worry. It will all be sailing under Swedish flag soon enough.

 

[Opanashc]

Norwegian built, or Norwegian-flagged? Cause today so many ships fly the colors of Liberia, obviously not built there.

 

[Killerrabbit]

Norwegian built.

 

[safe-keeper]

Definitely deserves to be made an event/decision. Something like "when at war, or suffiently close to Allies, fire this decision to give the British a large number of convoys".

 

[Simoleum]

Definitely deserves to be made an event/decision. Something like "when at war, or suffiently close to Allies, fire this decision to give the British a large number of convoys".

I agree! Upon the Fall of Norway, a decision should be launched whether the UK should attempt to gather the Fleet. Then the percentage of ships lost to Germany (of the fleet) can be determined by the size of Fascism in Norway (more or less manifesting itself into sailors deciding to return to occupied Norway, or go to Britain). Historically around 15% of the total fleet was within the German-controlled area and thus lost to the Allies. The battle was for the remaining 85% sailing worldwide.

 

[ParadiseCity]

I hope they implement the importance of the Norwegian Merchan Fleet.

A bit OT, but it's disgusting how the sailors were treated by the Norwegian Government after the war.

 

[Oerdin]

The UK always has a need for more convoys.

 

[Simoleum]

I hope they implement the importance of the Norwegian Merchan Fleet.

A bit OT, but it's disgusting how the sailors were treated by the Norwegian Government after the war.

Luckily they have gotten acknowledged and lots of attention in newer times, even a public apology (I believe?), and a best selling book-series here is about the Sailors.
I also hope that it is added. Its an overlooked contribution to the war, that was extremely important.

 

[Axe99]

A big +1 from me - would obviously need careful balancing of the event (or however else it was managed), so that a Norway that peacefully joined the Axis would transfer it to them instead (or however many per cent wouldn't be in the ports of anyone that the Axis were fighting against). Trickiest bit is managing the alt-history side of things. In historical mode, should be a doddle .

 

[jamesd]

I think this highlights one of the potential problems with the off map naval transport pools. If they were on map it would be easier to split them into spheres of influence. For example Norwegian ships in the Baltic would fall to Germany while those in the rest of the world would become British. In writing this I'm also thinking about all those ships not represented in previous games. A lot of trade was carried in coastal transports rather than on railways and inland waterways, but in HOI3 wherever there was a land connection there was no way to prevent the resources from arriving.

 

[Simoleum]

I think this highlights one of the potential problems with the off map naval transport pools. If they were on map it would be easier to split them into spheres of influence. For example Norwegian ships in the Baltic would fall to Germany while those in the rest of the world would become British. In writing this I'm also thinking about all those ships not represented in previous games. A lot of trade was carried in coastal transports rather than on railways and inland waterways, but in HOI3 wherever there was a land connection there was no way to prevent the resources from arriving.

A problem is that we don't fully know all features in game (mechanics), so its hard to suggest a good way apart for this to be added apart from events.

 

[agus92]

I think this highlights one of the potential problems with the off map naval transport pools. If they were on map it would be easier to split them into spheres of influence. For example Norwegian ships in the Baltic would fall to Germany while those in the rest of the world would become British. In writing this I'm also thinking about all those ships not represented in previous games. A lot of trade was carried in coastal transports rather than on railways and inland waterways, but in HOI3 wherever there was a land connection there was no way to prevent the resources from arriving.

While you can't see them, the game will know where the convoys are on the map. How would interception work if not?

So not a concern

 

[Simoleum]

While you can't see them, the game will know where the convoys are on the map. How would interception work if not?

So not a concern

Thats great! Then it is possible to make Germany seize 100% of Convoys in the Baltic, And Britain 90-95% of convoys around the World? (Or some other figures)

 

[LordOfWar16]

Nothing stops them from giving them alot of convoys of course. I just dont really see the major use in it. I doubt that norway will be able to buy nearly as much to make them really usefull and since captured equipment isnt in the game yet, and probably wont be for the release version, i dont think that you can actually conquer convoys.

 

[jamesd]

While you can't see them, the game will know where the convoys are on the map. How would interception work if not?

So not a concern

Do we know that? In HOI3 I always worked on the assumption that if a ship was patrolling a sea zone that had a convoy route passing through it, there was a chance to sink part of it. Some of those convoy routes went half way around the world, meaning that the convoy should only be present in any particular zone at very infrequent intervals, but that never seemed to slow down the rate of engagement. I wasn't too fussed in HOI3 because the number of ships required to keep a convoy route operating was ridiculously low, but in this scenario is that's the case then most of Norway's ships would spend all their time in home port and so would probably fall to Germany.

 

[agus92]

Do we know that? In HOI3 I always worked on the assumption that if a ship was patrolling a sea zone that had a convoy route passing through it, there was a chance to sink part of it. Some of those convoy routes went half way around the world, meaning that the convoy should only be present in any particular zone at very infrequent intervals, but that never seemed to slow down the rate of engagement. I wasn't too fussed in HOI3 because the number of ships required to keep a convoy route operating was ridiculously low, but in this scenario is that's the case then most of Norway's ships would spend all their time in home port and so would probably fall to Germany.

Well, we've been told that navies on map can intercept convoys. I think that we can safely assume that the game tracks where the convoys are.

 

[Simoleum]

Well, we've been told that navies on map can intercept convoys. I think that we can safely assume that the game tracks where the convoys are.

If that is the case, then it sounds possible, and most importantly desirable, to make some kind of feature simulating the Merchant fleet. Not only for flavor and historical considerations, but also because it sounds fun and challenging to try to gather it, and is very rewarding for the player.

If it is a plain event, or more interactive (requiring naval supremacy in certain areas to get most of the fleet (especially if the "% of people in Norway supporting Fascism" is used to decide the amount of ships returning home), since the Brits and exile government without a doubt sanctioned forcible requisition of the merchant ships abroad).

 

[Alex_brunius]

If the fleet works for the allies no matter if Norway falls or not. What difference for gameplay does it actually make?

 

[Simoleum]

If the fleet works for the allies no matter if Norway falls or not. What difference for gameplay does it actually make?

- Norway can remain neutral
- Germany can secure large portions of the fleet (if Norway joins Axis for example), or sink a lot, thus weakening Britain.
- Britain (in most cases) will secure large fleets of convoys to help their war effort.

Several options