North American Tribes Unstoppable

[antiwarattorney]

Native Americans in North America are unstoppable. I don't see how it is possible to colonize when they can declare war on your colonies without declaring war on country that owns the colony. You could have them outnumbered 100 to 1, but it doesn't matter because your troops in the colonies passively watch as the natives take over. Your colony has no ability to call allies. If you have a truce with them, you lose -5 stability just for declaring war on them. The fact they declared war on your colony doesn't even give you a causus belem. You have to watch and wait years for them to conquer you, then you can re-take stuff. However, there are dozens of tribes. So endless numbers of small tribes can conquer vast swaths of land from you without an ability to do anything. If you have no troops anywhere nearby and four provinces they won't attack, but if you are dumb enough to hit the magic number of five provinces, you suddenly want to attack even if you a million troops on their border.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

You can enforce peace you know? Warning might also work

 

[Zaddy]

You can use enforce peace the shut their wars down FYI. They'll usually decline because the AI isn't intelligent but then your other colonies should crush the natives for you. It's pretty silly but there's a solution for your issue.

 

[Atomcreator]

I hate the colonisation game now in EU4. How did it get to this ?

 

[MachopPower69]

I hate the colonisation game now in EU4. How did it get to this ?

Because Tinto loved the Sunset Invasion DLC from CK2

 

[Word_Smith]

I hate the colonisation game now in EU4. How did it get to this ?

Institutions and the unrestricted ability to develop provinces, mainly.

 

[MachopPower69]

Institutions and the unrestricted ability to develop provinces, mainly.

I want the game to me more than just conquest and developing provinces. I mean developing for institutions is literally the meta and it basically unbalances the game. Remember the memes of Totonacs with 150 dev provinces?

 

[Surimi]

I want the game to me more than just conquest and developing provinces. I mean developing for institutions is literally the meta and it basically unbalances the game. Remember the memes of Totonacs with 150 dev provinces?

Sure, but before the meta was to create weird snakes or island hopping to border a Western tech province as fast as possible in order to hit the magic button. Sure, the old Westernization system was more punishing to non-Western nations but you still had the problem that everyone had tech parity in the mid to late game and a player could get it way earlier by just cheesing.

The reason AI natives are winning a lot isn't institutions anyway. Native tribes can't actually spawn institutions and pay a massive premium for developing. It's federations combined with the generally oversized armies natives have. A large federation is easily capable of beating up a young colonial nation even with a huge tech disadvantage, and once they conquer colonial land they'll often get the institutions that way. It's more realistic in an alt-history sense but has unfortunate balance implications, especially since the AI isn't proactive in intervening on the part of its colonial nations.

It's actually easier than ever to conquer the natives if you do it actively though. If you have an army big enough to beat a federation, you can get massive amounts of land in a single war. Fight a few of those wars and the remaining natives will be extremely weak.

On a general note, there's always been a problem in EU4 where tech is ahistorically strong and rare in the early era and ahistorically weak and available in the late era. Some nerd discovering how to form a pike square shouldn't suddenly turn a late medieval army armed with pointy sticks into invincible space marines. Meanwhile, in the late game, when the disparity between "advanced" European nations and everyone else was historically most pronounced, it doesn't matter in game because everyone has all institutions anyway (or had Westernized, under the previous system).

I mean, native Americans actually were an existential threat to European colonies in the early stages of colonization, so it's not unrealistic for them to be so. It's just annoying to see it happen every game.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

.

It's actually easier than ever to conquer the natives if you do it actively though. If you have an army big enough to beat a federation, you can get massive amounts of land in a single war. Fight a few of those wars and the remaining natives will be extremely weak.

The issue is when federations inherit tribal lands from their previous members including other federations
So needing to reconquer constantly
Which just leads to the old issue the new system was meant to address of colonial nations owning all of NA by 1600

On a general note, there's always been a problem in EU4 where tech is ahistorically strong and rare in the early era and ahistorically weak and available in the late era. Some nerd discovering how to form a pike square shouldn't suddenly turn a late medieval army armed with pointy sticks into invincible space marines.

The swift adoption of pikes by the swiss, gunpowder by ottomans and mughals, is given as reasons for their early military successes

Meanwhile, in the late game, when the disparity between "advanced" European nations and everyone else was historically most pronounced, it doesn't matter in game because everyone has all institutions anyway (or had Westernized, under the previous system).

Why are you putting speech marks around advanced?

I mean, native Americans actually were an existential threat to European colonies in the early stages of colonization, so it's not unrealistic for them to be so. It's just annoying to see it happen every game.

That was because of the limited population of early colonies, whereas we have global manpower pools meaning little logistics are necessary, we also have instant communications and standing armies in eu4 not the 6 months of ocean travel and 2 month to assemble an army then another 6 months over

 

[Uskayaw]

I don't see how it is possible to colonize when they can declare war on your colonies without declaring war on country that owns the colony.

Enforce peace, vassalize buffer states, don't settle next to settled tribes.

However, there are dozens of tribes. So endless numbers of small tribes can conquer vast swaths of land from you without an ability to do anything.

Tribes bordering colonizers get +.5 federation development per month, which causes them to merge into federation nation faster.. This reduces their maximum manpower and force limit.

 

[FrogCrusher]

You can enforce peace you know? Warning might also work

You can use enforce peace the shut their wars down FYI. They'll usually decline because the AI isn't intelligent but then your other colonies should crush the natives for you. It's pretty silly but there's a solution for your issue.

Unless it has changed in the last versions no, because you need to not have a truce with them.
From wiki (and my past experience): "The enforcer must not have a truce with the leading attacker."
And the OP clearly states the case where he had truces. This is because CN do not have truce when that spawn. The easy fix for PDX is to have inheritance of the overload truce when CN form.

 

[Jespoke]

You can disable the Conquest of Paradise DLC until they fix it, as everything problematic about natives is in that pack, and there is nothing of value to non-natives in it.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

Unless it has changed in the last versions no, because you need to not have a truce with them.
From wiki (and my past experience): "The enforcer must not have a truce with the leading attacker."
And the OP clearly states the case where he had truces. This is because CN do not have truce when that spawn. The easy fix for PDX is to have inheritance of the overload truce when CN form.

Warning circumvents truce. With enforce peace your truces should line up. Theres also declaring on allies

 

[MachopPower69]

Unless it has changed in the last versions no, because you need to not have a truce with them.
From wiki (and my past experience): "The enforcer must not have a truce with the leading attacker."
And the OP clearly states the case where he had truces. This is because CN do not have truce when that spawn. The easy fix for PDX is to have inheritance of the overload truce when CN form.

Or maybe give the neighbours a truce for 5 years so tribes don't insta-declare

 

[Lykus Cerebros]

Warning circumvents truce. With enforce peace your truces should line up. Theres also declaring on allies

Warnings wouldn't work since that would require a border with the nation to be attacked right?

Might be possible with a colony or a province next to the CN am not sure on this.

 

[Surimi]

Why are you putting speech marks around advanced?

Because calling a culture advanced has unfortunate implications. It tends to be read as some kind of general technical (or moral) superiority, and that's something I specifically want to avoid because it's untrue.

Progress in any field is not linear or one dimensional, even if an abstracted video game may have to represent it as such, and technological determinism (popular as it may be) is generally quite poor as a historical argument.

 

[agonistes]

Native Americans in North America are unstoppable. I don't see how it is possible to colonize when they can declare war on your colonies without declaring war on country that owns the colony. You could have them outnumbered 100 to 1, but it doesn't matter because your troops in the colonies passively watch as the natives take over. Your colony has no ability to call allies. If you have a truce with them, you lose -5 stability just for declaring war on them. The fact they declared war on your colony doesn't even give you a causus belem. You have to watch and wait years for them to conquer you, then you can re-take stuff. However, there are dozens of tribes. So endless numbers of small tribes can conquer vast swaths of land from you without an ability to do anything. If you have no troops anywhere nearby and four provinces they won't attack, but if you are dumb enough to hit the magic number of five provinces, you suddenly want to attack even if you a million troops on their border.

I don't get this. Colonizing has never been easier. You send your troops in, take everything. Coalition forms and you enforce peace to war again. You can take over 15 provinces in the first war in northeast, before you've even finished a single colony! Take another 20 in the second. In a few short years you have two 10+ province colonies bordering each other.

Are you leaving your colonies unsupported?

 

[Atomcreator]

You can disable the Conquest of Paradise DLC until they fix it, as everything problematic about natives is in that pack, and there is nothing of value to non-natives in it.

Is this actually true ? Will this fix the colonisation problems ?

 

[The Tsar]

You can enforce peace you know? Warning might also work

You can't even enforce peace when you're in a regency though.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

You can't even enforce peace when you're in a regency though.

And how often is that?