Norse Strategy for Charlemagne Start.

[LordSamedi]

Hey Guys. It's been a while for me, I've just come off a long hiatus from this game but I've decided to jump back into it with my beloved Norsemen (Seriously of all the hours I have logged in this game the vast majority of them have got to be from pagan playthroughs.) It's been a while since I blobbed all over the place as Scandinavia so I decided that would be a good way to jump into the Charlemagne start.

I hear that pagans are significantly more powerful in the Charlemagne start and that AI reformations are more common but it seems to me that with the introduction of tribal mechanics pagans have significantly more hurdles to overcome. Basically my first game was with Sigurdr Hring who seems to be by-far the best choice for unifying Scandinavia and eventually reforming the faith (he's basically the Haraldr Fairhair of this era).

The problem was money. I didn't have enough money to ever form Sweden and raiding didn't seem to cut it. Tribal holdings are pretty poor and the Viking Age event didn't fire so I couldn't reach the rich petty-kingdoms of the British Isles. Raiding ended up just costing me more because of the money I had to pay to maintain the troops. So I was basically a kingdom-sized duchy. I ended up dying top early and getting balkanized by Elective Gavelkind then I rage-quit upon being confronted with a large independence revolt. With Sigurdr I seem to be running into the same problem I would with Haesteinn of Nantes I keep dying before my heir has come of age. Also I just can't get enough money to form Sweden and Sweden needs to be formed. Subjugating dukes around me leads to me having multiple ducal titles and I'm pretty much guaranteed to have multiple sons. I've been told this era is basically easy mode for the Norse but it's not been easy for me. Is there anything I should've done differently.

TL;DR: Who's the best Norse character for reforming the Germanic faith and forming Scandinavia and what strategy should be employed (I know there's some variation but generally there's a pattern that can be followed)? One mistake I think I made was not using my council to raise tribal event troops.

 

[nkibilko]

Sigurd Ring in Sviþjod is the best off in the 769 start, you can pretty easily get as big as you want as long as you're lucky enough to survive. Start with the ambition to become king of sweden and get all of its de jure territory. Make sure you save your once in a lifetime subjugation CB to use on another Norse badass. Some other duke usually ends up getting decent size in denmark or norway, that's when you want to use that once in a lifetime CB for outside your ambitions kingdom. I've reformed the Norse religion with him. Ragnar Lodbrok is his son and is also usually a good second generation. Make sure he doesnt have any brothers though. Also in 867 there are 2 Feudal vikings to start, Hæsteinn of Nantes and Halfdan Hvitserk of Jorvik.

I have to add that I made a custom kingdom out of all of de jure denmark plus everything in sweden minus norrland. (i used my subjugation CB on day one on the skoldung guy in denmark, he has almost all of its de jure territory) i then made a custom empire from that kingom that included it, the kingdom of norrland, and norway. This left scandinavia as a one kingdom empire with finland as its only kingdom, lol. FInland sucks though, for it's unbearable travel times!

 

[MathewPerth]

You need to raid feudal counties once the viking age begins, not tribal counties.

 

[gacorbacho]

Ive made two different Sigurd's playthroughs to get achievements in the last week, and managed to form Scandinavia and reform the faith in both. First thing you want to do is divorce your wife so Ragnarr doesnt have any brothers. After that, as the user above said, get the Sweden king ambition and attack one by one all the other swedish counts and dukes. I started attacking the big one right below first, as he is weaker than you and allows you to double your duchy size early on. Use your prestige to improve your main holding. In two years you should have all of sweden. Then, I would attack the danish king with the lifetime CB. You should own Sweden, Denmark and some counties in Norway by now.

Then I would start picking Finnish counties one by one to get enough the 50% moral authority, and as soon as you have the money, become a king, either of Sweden or even better of a custom kingdom made from all Scandinavia, as this will prevent elective gavelkind from tearing your titles apart (if you own both sweden and Denmark and rule as the king of Sweden, you will lose Denmark even if the title is not formed, as elective gavelkind will create any same level title you could own). In my first playthrough I got enough money from ransoms and dying earls leaving me as heir, but in the second I wasn't so lucky so I had to wait until the norse expansion, scheduled to happen around 793 or 794. As soon as you are fylkir emperor, the rest is easy, just keep improving your settlement but wait for a few of your vassals to be able to go feudal, or you will face the wrong government type penalty.

 

[MacDuffin]

You need to raid feudal counties once the viking age begins, not tribal counties.

I'd agree with this, its really, really far, but I tend to go to Venice and Rome, the Merchant cities eventually get retinues that you have to worry about, but the cities are easy to burn down.

Its also an added bonus to imagine the Pope just sitting there doing Pope stuff when all of a sudden a group of Vikings kick down his down and loot the place.

 

[IoannesBarbarus]

I played Sigurdr just week. Took the hunting focus to make him live until 800, subjugated sweden, then the duke of sjaelland, fabricated claim on naumadal, did about 9 county conquests to get to 50% MA, reformed faith, holy warred all over de jure Scandinavia until I had almost all of it. Didn’t need tribal decision troops except when Suomenuskos allied in my holy wars for Estonia and their defensive attrition ate my men. I’m trying to remember how I made money. Some of it must have been from ransoms, but I started raiding in Frisia as soon as the Viking event fired, and that’s where most of it came from. I created Sweden and then saved up enough to make Denmark and Scandinavia. Over the next 7 or 8 years I reached de jure borders (except Orkney), built up my capital and then reformed to republic, just a week before dropping dead. It was lucky because for the last 10 years or so if I’d died, my second son would have gotten Denmark. Sadly, I died so quick Ragnarr didn’t become Grand Prince, but the guy who did was infirm and only lasted 4 years (long enough to lose Rügen to a couple of Slavic counts attacking, the noob).

 

[MathewPerth]

I'd agree with this, its really, really far, but I tend to go to Venice and Rome, the Merchant cities eventually get retinues that you have to worry about, but the cities are easy to burn down.

Its also an added bonus to imagine the Pope just sitting there doing Pope stuff when all of a sudden a group of Vikings kick down his down and loot the place.

Its not really something one needs to agree to, it's solid fact. Tribal counties are literally broke in terms of raiding.

 

[gacorbacho]

Oh, I forgot, once you are king level you can vassalize the rest of Scandinavia just by asking, as they share culture with you and most of them are counts, so even if you aren't thr de jure liege they will pledge to you.

 

[saint242]

the Viking Age event didn't fire

This seems like the main problem you had. The Viking Age event is supposed to fire in 793. It's happened to me at least once that for some reason, it just didn't fire, and I've seen a few other complaints about it on the forum. The last time I tried to play Sigurdr Hring, it did fire successfully, though.

If it doesn't fire, then you need to just quit and restart your game, because playing a Norseman without the Viking Age free shipyards is awful and painful in the extreme. Once it does fire, then there is plenty of good advice on how to proceed in the posts above mine.

 

[mario1789]

This seems like the main problem you had. The Viking Age event is supposed to fire in 793. . . . Once it does fire, then there is plenty of good advice on how to proceed in the posts above mine.

^^^

I'd only add that with elective gavelkind, you should be able to prepare an invasion every generation, and you can use those troops to re-unite kingdoms.

 

[LordSamedi]

This seems like the main problem you had. The Viking Age event is supposed to fire in 793. It's happened to me at least once that for some reason, it just didn't fire, and I've seen a few other complaints about it on the forum. The last time I tried to play Sigurdr Hring, it did fire successfully, though.

If it doesn't fire, then you need to just quit and restart your game, because playing a Norseman without the Viking Age free shipyards is awful and painful in the extreme. Once it does fire, then there is plenty of good advice on how to proceed in the posts above mine.

I think things just went to shit before that year.

 

[mario1789]

Money is tight then, yeah. You'll get some from ransoming people, and you'll be able to conquer Finland fairly easily, but money can be tight. For me, usually it's Ragnarr not Sigurdr who makes kingdoms and so on, because money is pretty tight. But it's a long game so--you got time.

 

[Kumicho]

If you have WOL it's really, really easy. Use business to get at least 160g while using your spymaster to research tech. Then switch to scholarship focus and you'll have shipbuilding tech decades before anyone else. Then go raiding!

Or if you can raid for some cash first, go straight for the scholarship focus first, and you'll have boats even quicker.

The only other thing I do is try to start out with at least one temple in my demesne, and revoke it so I own it outright. Every little bit of cash helps

 

[LeftyNinjaPota]

Thanks m8

 

[Kapitalisti]

I'd agree with this, its really, really far, but I tend to go to Venice and Rome, the Merchant cities eventually get retinues that you have to worry about, but the cities are easy to burn down.

Its also an added bonus to imagine the Pope just sitting there doing Pope stuff when all of a sudden a group of Vikings kick down his down and loot the place.

Making a withdrawal from the banks of Italy as it were. All those poorly defended and filthy rich merchant cities are just too tasty to ignore once you get a large enough raiding force to actually siege them down.

 

[NakedBeast]

You can easily use any, even those with single county with no empty holdings. It goes this - seduction - 10+ children - 10+ allies - allies win any war. So you can sub to make a kingdom and offer vassalage to counts then eat big fish like other dukes/kinds like sigurd ring.
If you start with children and pick strong allies, can be enough even with starting children.

 

[hagagaga]

Go with Sigurd. Events boost his son to around 35 Martial. It is glorious. TIL VALHALL!

 

[Suryc]

I'm going to throw out another suggestion on what you could do as the Norse rather than just conquer everything and reform the faith.
Here are the rules I followed to make the game more interesting as the norse
Don't reform the religion
Don't form a kingdom unless you convert religions, or you subjugate another kingdom
Every duchy I conquer, I create the duchy and I have one county in every duchy.
I have plenty of children with each ruler and allow my realm to be torn apart by elective gavelkind for about five generations.

It is interesting having your dynasty ruling every duchy in Scandinavia and the British Isles.
With such a large dynasty, you're guaranteed from game overs really and you have more allies and more enemies than you know what to do with. I ended this game of mine around 1100 CE with dynasty members in Spain, France, the British Isles, Scandinavia, and Russia. Members of my family have converted to Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Islam. Many of them also became members of local cultures. It was my most interesting game as the Norse ever.

 

[TheDungen]

Nice necro.