My nomination isnt going to work , my youngest son is the best by far.. but the oldest will become the next king. How can I get others to vote for the youngest
Norse gravelkind election
- Thread starter ringworm
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It is really difficult to do it the honest way. How old is your youngest? Is he adult yet? If not, that will prevent him.
I think vasals who likes you might be swayed to follow your wote, but its not fools proof.
Making your eldest Godi will usually remove his support. However you can often not land your heir with titles outside your central province line (counties belonging to your capital duchy), so you might need to revoke a Godi title or create a new temple. Sometimes I can get a "cousin" (some other male dynasty member, if he already have support) temporarily nominated heir by nominating one with existing support, then land the eldest son with a godi title, and switch the nomination back to the youngest son, but it takes some time and can backfire.
Otherwise try making your youngest son popular and your eldest son unpopular, as your vassals wote for people they like (prestige affects this I think, but I am not certain).
Otherwise you can incur a tyranny by imprison your eldest and throw him in the hole and hope for the best (or worst depending on viewpoint). However this might backfire as your vassals might prefer some more distant relative.
Another alternative is making your youngest as strong as possible and then accept the older brother as ruler and then make sure he dosnt have sons, nominated your younger brother and get your older brother/ruler killed quickly. This can also be used to keep more land through the land split in gavelkind (uniting the sons lands after a short period).
I think vasals who likes you might be swayed to follow your wote, but its not fools proof.
Making your eldest Godi will usually remove his support. However you can often not land your heir with titles outside your central province line (counties belonging to your capital duchy), so you might need to revoke a Godi title or create a new temple. Sometimes I can get a "cousin" (some other male dynasty member, if he already have support) temporarily nominated heir by nominating one with existing support, then land the eldest son with a godi title, and switch the nomination back to the youngest son, but it takes some time and can backfire.
Otherwise try making your youngest son popular and your eldest son unpopular, as your vassals wote for people they like (prestige affects this I think, but I am not certain).
Otherwise you can incur a tyranny by imprison your eldest and throw him in the hole and hope for the best (or worst depending on viewpoint). However this might backfire as your vassals might prefer some more distant relative.
Another alternative is making your youngest as strong as possible and then accept the older brother as ruler and then make sure he dosnt have sons, nominated your younger brother and get your older brother/ruler killed quickly. This can also be used to keep more land through the land split in gavelkind (uniting the sons lands after a short period).
That depends: getting out of elective gavelkind requires to go feudal and you might not want to rush that too much as the transition leaves your weak. Staying tribal for several generations have its perks (prestige building etc). Also if you want to reform you might not be able to do so in one generation (unless you are very experienced or use one of the really good starts).
If well managed elective gavelkind is not as bad as it is made out to be. Yes, you cannot gather a large personal real at the same times have a lot of sons. But starting as Norse you have plenty of opportunities to expand - leaving lands for your other sons (unless you have alot of sons). Of course kingdom tier titles will break off if they can (I assume a kingdom is formed during the life of the first ruler). Trying not to expand in any direction on full kingdom is a plan: as Sweden take only half of Finland, some of Norway, some of Denmark etc (similar for the other realms). Especially along the Baltic coast is a lot of nice duchies to gather, that wont force you to create a second Kingdom. Then wait for the de jure drift before taking more land in any direction. Alternatively wait only until a few short wars will get you the empire title.
If a kingdom size realm breaks away, you are one war/murder away from uniting your realm (dont merry sons you dont want to rule, or better yet merry them off to old women in your court for safety, so they dont elope or do other stupid things).
In Rssia forming either Ruthenai or the other kingom, leaves you with plenty of expansion posibilities without the probem of whole parts of the real breaking away. I never had any problems in this direction.
In most cases i havnt had any problems.
I gavelkind is too much of a problem: dont have sons. This is an alternative strategy, have sons in the first generation and land as many as possible, and then after the first generation stop having more sons (merry old women). The dynasty should be big enough to create enough legitimite heirs and you can selct between them as your successor. If landed this brings more counties into your realms, so I have had to shift between son-less rulers and rulers with sons to split it up again.
If well managed elective gavelkind is not as bad as it is made out to be. Yes, you cannot gather a large personal real at the same times have a lot of sons. But starting as Norse you have plenty of opportunities to expand - leaving lands for your other sons (unless you have alot of sons). Of course kingdom tier titles will break off if they can (I assume a kingdom is formed during the life of the first ruler). Trying not to expand in any direction on full kingdom is a plan: as Sweden take only half of Finland, some of Norway, some of Denmark etc (similar for the other realms). Especially along the Baltic coast is a lot of nice duchies to gather, that wont force you to create a second Kingdom. Then wait for the de jure drift before taking more land in any direction. Alternatively wait only until a few short wars will get you the empire title.
If a kingdom size realm breaks away, you are one war/murder away from uniting your realm (dont merry sons you dont want to rule, or better yet merry them off to old women in your court for safety, so they dont elope or do other stupid things).
In Rssia forming either Ruthenai or the other kingom, leaves you with plenty of expansion posibilities without the probem of whole parts of the real breaking away. I never had any problems in this direction.
In most cases i havnt had any problems.
I gavelkind is too much of a problem: dont have sons. This is an alternative strategy, have sons in the first generation and land as many as possible, and then after the first generation stop having more sons (merry old women). The dynasty should be big enough to create enough legitimite heirs and you can selct between them as your successor. If landed this brings more counties into your realms, so I have had to shift between son-less rulers and rulers with sons to split it up again.
If your vassals like your eldest son more than your youngest son, there may not be much you can do about it.
Do the best you can, and make sure your sons already have plenty of land before succession happens, so that at least you can have a rational succession that makes sense. The last thing you want are key tribal holdings going to the wrong son.
Do the best you can, and make sure your sons already have plenty of land before succession happens, so that at least you can have a rational succession that makes sense. The last thing you want are key tribal holdings going to the wrong son.
Kill the elders, let the strongest survive.
Odin hungers, feed him your own (more popular) children, it'll turn out "alright".
Odin hungers, feed him your own (more popular) children, it'll turn out "alright".
" If your vassals like your eldest son more than your youngest son, there may not be much you can do about it.
Do the best you can, and make sure your sons already have plenty of land before succession happens, so that at least you can have a rational succession that makes sense. The last thing you want are key tribal holdings going to the wrong son."
In relation to this; another thing that sometimes have worked in my favour is to check the de jure lands of your vassals: if you can land your eldest son with a province of one of your electors who are in his favour, they will dislike him and often change their wote.
Do the best you can, and make sure your sons already have plenty of land before succession happens, so that at least you can have a rational succession that makes sense. The last thing you want are key tribal holdings going to the wrong son."
In relation to this; another thing that sometimes have worked in my favour is to check the de jure lands of your vassals: if you can land your eldest son with a province of one of your electors who are in his favour, they will dislike him and often change their wote.