Nooo Fatimid AI Jihad on Aragon makes no sense!!!

[Ciccillo Rre]

Just spoiled a beautiful Jimena game.

The Fatimids are too overpowered.

By the way, why did they win even if the warscore was 70% in their favour? I thought you only are forced to accept a treaty when you reach 100% (that's at least what has happened to me so far). I was pretty confident I could still win, I had the two holy orders ready to reconquer Catalunya.

 

[Upthrust]

It's possible your ruler was captured in battle. In that case it's an automatic 100% warscore.

 

[Merci357]

Exacty this spoiled my last Christian Iberia game. I played aragon as well, all went quite well - I aquired lots of land, I was always allied with either France or the HRE, sometimes both at the some time, so I even weathered a few holy wars and Invasions against me. Well, until the Shia Jihad was called against Aragon, of all places... Quick game over.

Now, I don't mind a challenging game, but it has to make (some) sense. Sunni Jihad, that's fine - I'm fighting these guys all time, they are my neighbours. Shia Jihad (Fatamids), no, that's quite wrong in my view. They have literally dozens of other "infidel" targets close to home, they really don't have to pick me at the other end of the map.

 

[Comrade Chaos]

Fatimids are OP because you lost?

 

[riknap]

Fatimids are OP because you lost?

the main problem is that the fatimid caliphate/sultanate is several hundred miles away from aragon.
It's like England owning baltic provinces, or a king of ireland and jerusalem.
...

regarding the last example :laugh:

 

[Ciccillo Rre]

Now, I don't mind a challenging game, but it has to make (some) sense. Sunni Jihad, that's fine - I'm fighting these guys all time, they are my neighbours. Shia Jihad (Fatamids), no, that's quite wrong in my view. They have literally dozens of other "infidel" targets close to home, they really don't have to pick me at the other end of the map.

This

the main problem is that the fatimid caliphate/sultanate is several hundred miles away from aragon.
It's like England owning baltic provinces, or a king of ireland and jerusalem.

and this

And let me add that the Shia power in North Africa should be waning in this time period.

Ah, and in my game the Fatimids have been for several years at 100% decadence while fighting against me.

WAD for them being Jihading? Or a bug / game design problem?

 

[Puking Panda]

My suggestion, marry you close relatives(sons, daughters, brothers, sisters or yourself) for alliances with France and HRE, call them to war -> profit

 

[Acguy]

In my current Navarra -> Hispania game, France and Brittany always offer to join me when there's a jihad against Andalusia. It's good to save up gold in case you need the help of mercenaries, though.

 

[Portal]

Really annoyed because a generation's worth of work warring with the Cori Emirate has been totally undone in only a few years by a Jihad for Andalusia. Plus, I can't take the land back. I even tried when the Sultanate was overcome with civil war and was facing what seemed like 10 simultaneous insurrections by all his Emirs. I got crushed by a 20k doomstack. I couldn't even use Holy Orders because the moral authority of the Catholic Church is so low (mostly due to my Antipope, which I set up and got a load of cash, then I noticed the authority of the Church was getting low and realized I should end the Schism. Then I notice for some reason the HRE owned Rome and the Pope was unlanded. So I couldn't declare war on him. So the moral authority of the Church dwindled to zero, I shrugged, then checked back later and noticed my antipope was gone, then wondered a bit and got confused and shrugged again).

 

[Ciccillo Rre]

My suggestion, marry you close relatives(sons, daughters, brothers, sisters or yourself) for alliances with France and HRE, call them to war -> profit

In my game I was allied with both France and HRE. HRE was intact, responded to the call, yet did not intervene. Not a single soldier of the HRE fought a Shia Fatimid.

The French refused three calls of war as they were busy in the conquest of Granada against the Duhunnudid Emirate.

I did not have mercenaries, I had holy orders. Two of them. I wiped out stack after stack (10K) of the Fatimids as they were coming. About ten of them. Yet they were keeping coming.

As I said, even though my score was -70% I was confident I could reoccupy Barcelona and nearby provinces in time. However I suddenly lost (not clear why).

This is totally unrealistic.

 

[Ciccillo Rre]

Ah, and I started today a game as the Rurikovich. Around year 1100, the Fatimids had won three Jihads:

1) for the kingdom of Armenia (I can accept it, but it should better go to the Seljuk, but whatever);

2) for the Kingdom of Sicily (less than acceptable when it's so regular, it seems that Christians in southern Italy can survive only if they are conquered early by Maghrebi powers so that no Jihad are called and Genoa/HRE can slowly retake the land);

3) for ITALY. ITALY conquered by the Fatimids by 1100? Makes no sense. Nobody in Christendom defended the Pope and the HRE!!!

Jihads are overpowered, Crusades look really underpowered now.

 

[Kannon]

Conquest CBs are even more broken than jihad.

Fatimids are OP because you lost?

Shia Caliphate is OP because they have what, a hundred thousand soldiers? (more in my game) And if they decided to invade anyone, they win by default.

Core of my kingdom gone, in the blink of an eye. Since this isn't HOI and combat is resolved through sheer numbers 140 thousand soldiers versus 25 thousand + holy orders = death for the smaller army.

It's like giving HRE a free invasion CB to on all of its neighbors. Except it's not only on neighboors and HRE has triple the amount of troops

Muslim conquest CB should abide by the same laws as catholic invasion CB, I would guess. That is - can't be used on the smaller countries. They already have tech superiority to begin with.

 

[Ciccillo Rre]

Conquest CBs are even more broken than jihad.


Shia Caliphate is OP because they have what, a hundred thousand soldiers? (more in my game) And if they decided to invade anyone, they win by default.

Core of my kingdom gone, in the blink of an eye. Since this isn't HOI and combat is resolved through sheer numbers 140 thousand soldiers versus 25 thousand + holy orders = death for the smaller army.

It's like giving HRE a free invasion CB to on all of its neighbors. Except it's not only on neighboors and HRE has triple the amount of troops

Muslim conquest CB should abide by the same laws as catholic invasion CB, I would guess. That is - can't be used on the smaller countries. They already have tech superiority to begin with.

Fully agree. In addition to gameplay issues, this kind of things spoil immersion as they create monstruous patchwork maps (worsening a tendence the game already has) and irrealistic outcomes.

Also, in the Eastern Mediterranean the Shia religion quickly lost its political strength in the timeframe of the game, if not even its religious influence.

The Fatimids/Egypt must be nerfed the same way (if not more) the Byzantines have been with 1.05 and 1.06. Definitely.

If the Seljuks were made slightly better at winning the initial war for Armenia - easy way to do: turn rebellions off by changing vassals traits, make the Seljuks' and Byzantines' armies raised as in the England scenario and slightly multiply the size of the initial Seljuk army like it is artificially done in the England case - it would be great as well. Some free CB for Seljuks over Syria and Jerusalem, to keep the Fatimids busy? It would be historical and cool too, but I see this as a second order issue.

 

[unfringed]

Think that's bad, I had to defend against both a Sunni jihad and a Shia jihad simultaneously. Fortunately by that time I had all but united Hispania and a very full bank (that I nearly emptied, was running at a 35 loss a month for a while), so I managed to white peace them after ten years of stack stomping.

The worst thing is there's no easy way to lose crusaders/jihadists. If you're just fighting Granada or something and they pull in the Fatimids through a regular alliance, you can just assassinate wives or rulers to break the alliance. No such luck when they voluntarily join jihads. You can still try to kill rulers to destabilize their realm, but there's no guarantee it'll help you much.

 

[Tjolme]

Can't you assassinate the King or Sultan to get a country to drop out of a Crusade / Jihad. Whenever my King dies during a crusade then i'd be kicked out of it and have to ask to rejoin again losing all my contribution score.

 

[HabemusZlatan]

Ah, and I started today a game as the Rurikovich. Around year 1100, the Fatimids had won three Jihads:

1) for the kingdom of Armenia (I can accept it, but it should better go to the Seljuk, but whatever);

2) for the Kingdom of Sicily (less than acceptable when it's so regular, it seems that Christians in southern Italy can survive only if they are conquered early by Maghrebi powers so that no Jihad are called and Genoa/HRE can slowly retake the land);

3) for ITALY. ITALY conquered by the Fatimids by 1100? Makes no sense. Nobody in Christendom defended the Pope and the HRE!!!

Jihads are overpowered, Crusades look really underpowered now.

Nah, it's mostly because AI looks at it as easy land to take and the christian powers see it as something not worth their time as they're as powerful as they are.

It's like the Byzantines blobbing their way through Russia because Holy War against Tengri means no one will help the Cumans and, of course, free land.
The same applies to the Fatimid conquering Ethiopia every time despite them being in pretty friendly terms irl and the Sunnis having a 800 years truce with the Ethiopians.

The various Crusades for Aragon and Andalusia/Mauretania are as silly as the Jihads for Italy actually.

 

[Emre Yigit]

This might be easy to fix. In the landed_titles.txt there are weights for Crusades and Jihads.

The one for the Kingdom of Jerusalem is:

		christian = 500 # Crusade target weight
		muslim = 250 # Crusade target weight

However, I could find no muslim weight for Italy. It must be that they've run out of targets. Or that the weights for the muslim targets (largely in the Middle and Near East) need to be raised.

 

[Menocchio]

I don't know if Fatimids are OP but they need to stop making yihads for Aragón/Catalonia. In my current game France owns the coast of Argelia. Jihad? For Catalonia. Another jihad? For Catalonia.

 

[Emre Yigit]

I think the muslim jihad weights for their "traditional" lands should be raised, so that they go for those instead of Iberia or Italy. See two posts above.

 

[Octavio]

ive mentioned this problem yesterday in the 1.07 wishlist because this makes no sense to me too. afaik, the heads of christendom/islam werent rivals until the christians started the invasions. until the 3rd (?) crusade that is, when the first jihad was pronounced (in an emotional response to the atrocities of the europeans).

either way, i think jihads should be disabled until there has been at least one crusade including the occupation of provinces or at least 1-2 major battles