noob with some questions

[airslo]

ok, so I have never ever played a hoi game....I am a civ and vic player....I have been watching this game with eagerness since they announced it...read every DD and watch every video I can find....
so.....

why is it that all of the mechanics they talk about equal up to nothing?
1. big talk about weather...never once did I see anyone in WWW care about the weather..to be a fact he launched into Poland in Feb.
2. Terrain is a big deal...NOPE. Didn't see a single person care for one second about the terrain...they drew a green line on the map and said go there...no strategy or disicion to make with the terrain.
3. supplies....NOPE not a mention or concern about supply.....
and so on, can you guys tell me, am I missing this and they are really worried and strategizing with these things in mind and I am missing it, or does none of that matter and its all fluff??

thanks
slo

 

[Sharp163]

It's one of those things that won't cost you the war, but would be nice to keep an eye on.

If you're a new player, don't worry about it. Focus on getting used to the mechanics and such... When you're a more experienced player, you'll figure out how to do things in the most efficient way possible, and for the lowest cost of life. That's basically what you're talking about things like weather and terrain.

Hope this helped

 

[Victor Cortez]

Well,

1) I don't think WWW is too serious a playthrough, I think they just want to build up hype and show the game.
2) The things you mention (weather, terrain and supply) shouldn't be that critical in western europe anyway (some divs were out of supply btw).
3) Balancing.

 

[airslo]

ok, thanks guys, so this game is living up too what you experienced players where hoping for then?? Again, I have nothing to compare it too, however, I was thinking it would be much more decision based then it appears to be....

thanks
slo

 

[safe-keeper]

With experience from their other games, I can safely say terrain, supplies, and so on matters a lot. Weather was really "in the background" in HOI3, but terrain is super important. Forcing your enemy to attack you in mountains or from the other side of a river gives you a huge advantage, just like in the Civ games.

They're just not doing a good job showing it off for the WWW, I suppose because they're focusing on new features or just aren't used to streaming their game.

Oh, and welcome to the forums!

 

[cardinal7]

well although i haven't played hoi ,i can assume that the weather (attrition) would be something simillar to eu4 -meaning some percentage of your troops die in fixed interval of time, that percentage itself being based mainly on weather and terrain-
in this sense the invasion of poland from the video is a bad example because the player knew he could finish it really fast without problems making attrition less important as a factor of his total losses. however try invade somebody like soviet union, who has a combination of huge country, terrible weather and a good production to drag out the war so you cant finish him with a quick blow, then i am sure the weather will play major role on your decisions as it would play a major role on your losses. i could make a simillar arguement about terrain: throwing alot of troops on unfavourable terrain at important battles will surely have big consequences but it won;t be obvious for every small battle that you can win easilly

 

[safe-keeper]

There isn't even weather in EU4, just climate conditions that may not affect more than attrition, as in, "oh look, there's snow all around, guess we have to die now". HOI4 will have rain, snow, and wind, which will behave in realistic-ish ways and produce snow and mud.

 

[safe-keeper]

ok, thanks guys, so this game is living up too what you experienced players where hoping for then?? Again, I have nothing to compare it too, however, I was thinking it would be much more decision based then it appears to be....

thanks
slo

There are demons of CK2, EU4, and HOI3 on Steam, try them out and they will give you a good idea . Just keep in mind the games have gotten a long way since their demo days, HOI3 especially (and HOI4 will be a different beast altogether ) .

The PDX games in general are what I always wished the Civ games would be. I like the Civ series, but always felt it wasn't realistic, immersing and deep enough. Once I discovered the newer PDX games, I got hooked pretty fast. They are deep and complex, but once you start to get the hang on them they're incredibly fun.

Oh, and watching Let's Plays by YouTubers like Arumba and Quill18 gives you a far better idea than watching the WWW stream. They've even played HOI4, even though they just talk about the game in the videos they uploaded, they're not really true Let's Plays.

 

[airslo]

thanks again guys...I sure hope you are right...I want a true ww2 simulation....I know that weather and terrain will effect things, it just appears in WWW that the amount it is effecting things is having little to no effect....or they just are not pointing it out...maybe they are considering these things and just not pointing it out....

thanks again for all the feedback...
slo

 

[shri]

@airslo

If you observe the WWW carefully, you will see that German casualties have crossed 500000 with just Poland and France and Denmark, in real life it wasn't until mid-late 1941 (Russian Invasion) that casualties of Germany reached that figure. If i remember right, only by September 1941 i.e. 2 years after start of War was this figure reached not in 8 months like it has happened.
This shows that Jacob has ignored - Terrain, Weather and Supplies and done a WW1 style "War of Attrition".
Also Jacob has ignored Blitzkrieg and sent the "Manstein Army on the Elsab-Lothringen Front" (only the Manstein and Rommel armies of 10 divisions each were Motorized/Armored) rest were all infantry formations - under Rundstedt, Kluge, Bock, Witzleben etc.

So, in all, he has adopted a "Safe and Sure" victory over the gamble of sending Armored and Motorised troops and outflanking the allies from the North.
He has attacked French Forts on the Maginot Line and suffered brutal casualties and
He does not have air-superiority over Northern France (mainly because Johan has built a huge air fleet).

 

[The Tactician]

ok, so I have never ever played a hoi game....I am a civ and vic player....I have been watching this game with eagerness since they announced it...read every DD and watch every video I can find....
so.....

why is it that all of the mechanics they talk about equal up to nothing?
1. big talk about weather...never once did I see anyone in WWW care about the weather..to be a fact he launched into Poland in Feb.
2. Terrain is a big deal...NOPE. Didn't see a single person care for one second about the terrain...they drew a green line on the map and said go there...no strategy or disicion to make with the terrain.
3. supplies....NOPE not a mention or concern about supply.....
and so on, can you guys tell me, am I missing this and they are really worried and strategizing with these things in mind and I am missing it, or does none of that matter and its all fluff??

thanks
slo

you do know that they tell you whats important so you can care about it not for them plus during WWW they are playing for a limited time so they can't actually do everything they should because they are busy trying to show off the game to us plus they can't pause to plan everything which something I did quite often to see how everything is going and give my troops new orders in past hoi games they can't do that because they are only playing for 1 hour we play for hours straight so we can check these things all the time my point is exactly shown in germany's horrific(sorry Jakob) invasion of france, and when you get to play it you will find that you are pausing constantly to check that everything is going right with your strategic master plan so I actually canoot blame them as I have played hoi before.

P.S. Poland isn't exactly Siberia so you don't get a great disadvantage when you invade it in winter just saying

 

[wright1331]

ok, so I have never ever played a hoi game....I am a civ and vic player....I have been watching this game with eagerness since they announced it...read every DD and watch every video I can find....
so.....

why is it that all of the mechanics they talk about equal up to nothing?
1. big talk about weather...never once did I see anyone in WWW care about the weather..to be a fact he launched into Poland in Feb.
2. Terrain is a big deal...NOPE. Didn't see a single person care for one second about the terrain...they drew a green line on the map and said go there...no strategy or disicion to make with the terrain.
3. supplies....NOPE not a mention or concern about supply.....
and so on, can you guys tell me, am I missing this and they are really worried and strategizing with these things in mind and I am missing it, or does none of that matter and its all fluff??

thanks
slo

Weather isn't something players look at constantly. You can usually guess by the season. Winter, you are going to get more attrition and maybe less supply throughput. Early spring, SU will be covered in mud and a tank push wont work very well... ect

Terrain on the other hand matters all the time. In the most recent WWW, terrain was less of an issue because Western Europe (Germany, Poland, France) really only has plains, forest and Urban (with Urban being obvious) environments. Once you get into Desert, Arctic, and most inportantly Jungle and Mountains then it becomes a very big issue.

If you are in southwester China, SU/ Turkish boarder, South Pacific, North Africa, then terrain is something you will be more aware of.

 

[airslo]

wow..thanks so much guys, you have renewed my hope for this game!!

 

[henzington]

The polish winter isn't nearly as bad the Russian one to be fair.

 

[shri]

Also see, the Swedish Invasion, it went terrible for Dan as Sweden is Cold (Terrain) + it has under-developed Infra + it has Forests, Hills etc.
despite numerical superiority he was losing and then Johan cut him off from the south in a daring naval invasion using his superior airforce to punish the Germans and superior navy to provide shore bombardment and protection of convoys.

 

[airslo]

please keep pointing these things out...because I don't see them happening as clearly as you guys do...but I want to know its there!!!
thanks again..
slo
ps..www part5 was the best one so far IMO