Noob Question : taking the Rhineland

[amalric de g.]

I completely agree with you. But the question is are they able to advance far enough and cross the Rhine ?

And are they able to stay there afterwards (resist the german counter-attack)?

From that point of view stopping at the Rhine on good defensive positions may be a valid option. A bird in the hands is worth two in the bush.

But if the circonstances look good, yes take more land, industry and resources is warranted.

Thats the problem, if Germany could cross the Rhine, say in the Region of Mainz and cut off the French and UK Army, then France would be in real trouble.

The french Army doctrine, allowed no fast breakthrough movements, they had moved in a steady crawl (walking pace) to the Rhine, ever under the cover of the french Artillery. So the Wehrmacht had a big time window to respond to the attack.

 

[frolix42]

I completely agree with you. But the question is are they able to advance far enough and cross the Rhine ?

And are they able to stay there afterwards (resist the german counter-attack)?

From that point of view stopping at the Rhine on good defensive positions may be a valid option. A bird in the hands is worth two in the bush.

But if the circonstances look good, yes take more land, industry and resources is warranted.

Thats the problem, if Germany could cross the Rhine, say in the Region of Mainz and cut off the French and UK Army, then France would be in real trouble.

The french Army doctrine, allowed no fast breakthrough movements, they had moved in a steady crawl (walking pace) to the Rhine, ever under the cover of the french Artillery. So the Wehrmacht had a big time window to respond to the attack.

Back in mid-1918, the Allies were pushing the Germans out of France. On it's way out, the Wehrmacht tore up the Picardie region badly and caused Billions of $ in damage. The stated purpose of this was to prevent France for using this industry against them. Given the fact that Germany surrendered weeks later, the French viewed razing Picardie as the actions of vindictive losers and used this as an excuse to bleed the Germans for more reparations.

If the allies were able to take the Rhineland in the early stage of WW2, it seems to me that they would gleefully tear up the Rhineland if they were being pushed out, just as the Germans tore up Picardie in 1918. The damage done to German industry by razing the Rhineland would drastically reduce it's industrial might and buy the allies vital time to rearm.

Of course Paradox, though all it's games, is rather unrealistically forgiving in regards to razing. I don't think this is necessarily a bad game design choice, human players hate attrition and "doing nothing" while their country rebuilds.

 

[Volodio]

I don't think you could take Siegfried line first, unless the AI have very few soldiers here. Even if you success, and you will have to use both French and British army, you will loose a lot of soldiers and after that, you can't hold the Rhineland. In best case, Germany will just push you to the Maginot line, and in the worse case he will encircle your armies, destroy them, then easely enter in France, which will have no defence, and annexed it before the historical date.

 

[amalric de g.]

Back in mid-1918, the Allies were pushing the Germans out of France. On it's way out, the Wehrmacht tore up the Picardie region badly and caused Billions of $ in damage. The stated purpose of this was to prevent France for using this industry against them. Given the fact that Germany surrendered weeks later, the French viewed razing Picardie as the actions of vindictive losers and used this as an excuse to bleed the Germans for even more reparations.

If the allies were able to take the Rhineland in the early stage of WW2, it seems to me that they would gleefully tear up the Rhineland if they were being pushed out, just as the Germans tore up Picardie in 1918. The damage done to German industry by razing the Rhineland would drastically reduce it's industrial might and buy the allies vital time to rearm.

Of course Paradox, though all it's games, is rather unrealistically forgiving in regards to razing. I don't think this is necessarily a bad game design choice, human players hate attrition and "doing nothing" while their country rebuilds.

I don´t know what this event has to do with the discussion, but ingame the Infra and IC suffers from heavy fighting, so if the French and UK Armys manages to capture the left or both sides of the Rhine and the Wehrmacht droves them back, the damage is done.

The German Army in 1918 was called Deutsches Heer and not Wehrmacht and please stop bickering about some old bills, both countries (France and Germany) had a fair enough share on topics we better not discuss.

 

[frolix42]

I don´t know what this event has to do with the discussion

Just like what the Germans did to the territory of occupied France in 1918, the French would've demolished the Rhineland's industry while retreating. In other words, the Allies wouldn't have to maintain control of the Rhineland in order to inflict significant damage to Germany.

The German Army in 1918 was called Deutsches Heer and not Wehrmacht and please stop bickering about some old bills, both countries (France and Germany) had a fair enough share on topics we better not discuss.

You're right, the Army of Germany was called the "Deutsches Heer". But unless you think that destroying abstracted enemy industry is an unspeakable atrocity, I'm not touching "forbidden topics". Nor is it forbidden to mention the fact that France and Germany were bitter rivals.

Germany starts with Bitter Loser, which makes them less likely to move away from fascism, and with General Staff that is a +5% to organisation & 25% faster planning speed, while France has a Victors of WW1 which gives 75% more expensive doctrine research until they have reached a point in their national focus tree that removes it.

 

[amalric de g.]

Just like what the Germans did to the territory of occupied France in 1918, the French would've demolished the Rhineland's industry while retreating. In other words, the Allies wouldn't have to maintain control of the Rhineland in order to inflict significant damage to Germany.

You're right, the Army of Germany was called the "Deutsches Heer". But unless you think that destroying abstracted enemy industry is an unspeakable atrocity, I'm not touching "forbidden topics". Nor is it forbidden to mention the fact that France and Germany were bitter rivals.

I´m sorry, i misunderstood your intention, such topics have a tendency to drift in the wrong direction.