Non US Army movies.

[adam_grif]

Fury has a bizarre combination of sombre realism, Hollywood action ridiculousness, and historical myths. An Easy 8 Sherman with standard AP rounds (not even hot rounds which were obviously limited) should be able to penetrate a Tiger frontally at hundreds of meters. Two of the five Sherman tanks in that battle were using 76mm guns. Had they all opened fire, the Tiger would be dead in one salvo from the initial combat ranges. The Fury crew closes the distance, and doesn't even fire on side armour, but REAR armour. From memory all of the Shermans that die start cooking off, although I may be misremembering that part. At any rate, that's myth-city, with the invincible Tiger's Krupp Stahl requiring two point blank rear armour shots from a 76mm Sherman to kill it. This movie is set in fucking April 1945, but its grim, desolate depiction of US tank forces makes you feel like the Americans could suddenly lose at any time and were desperately outmatched. It's one of those selective depiction biases - we see this one dramatic encounter with a rare Tiger tank (Tiger I's being about as rare as Unicorns in 1945 for the American zones of advance) that kicks their ass, rather than one of the other trillion encounters US tankers had with Stugs, Panzer IVs etc.

On the other side of the ridiculousness spectrum, we have the Fury gunning down one million Germans by my estimation. All of them lining up for the slaughter. For just hours and hours.

Then again it does have some good things in it. I quite liked the scene with the women, since they didn't gloss over the obvious implication that even the "good guys" were no strangers to indirectly coercing or outright raping the people the countries they were invading. It's a kernel of uncomfortable truth hidden in there. The characters are pretty well written and acted, and Shia can actually act when he's not given shitty transformers scripts, it turns out.

 

[Zupanicarr]

Bearable American-made films are really, really rare.

Come on, most movies (in general) are crap, and I've seen my fair share of awful Yankee movies, but I wouldn't say good ones are rare, even when restricting it to just war films.

Have you ever seen Letters from Iwo Jima as mentioned before, or Band of Brothers and it's sister series the Pacific? Those are all pretty good American stuff off the top of my head.
They output so much stuff, statistically some of it has to be good sometimes. "Really, really rare" is just plain not true, even if it's less because of how good their film industry is, and more of how big their film industry is...

 

[Victor Cortez]

I will have to disagree on a couple of points, the movie having a Tiger in spite of them being rare I can understand. Tigers look cool and better that Pz IVs. But the rest?

The final scene is so ridiculous the whole movie crumbles down with it. It's particularly funny how they clearly display the Germans with lots of panzerfausts.
The characters are the worst though (not the actors). Unbelievably predictable and cliché. The hardened boss who doesn't talk much and is respected everywhere and dies at the end, the religious freak, the weirdo, the Mexican, the novice that turns out to be good... they're all there.
The "women" scene is rather poor. It tries to build a climax over whether they will be raped or not, makes the novice fall in love with one of them and then they die. Could see that one coming.

I'm not trying to convince anyone here, if you liked the movie or found it interesting, I'm happy for you. I was massively disappointed.

I found Generation War way more realistic in this sense (even though there are a couple of crazy things there too).

 

[Anton Rex]

I do know of one swedish film called Gränsen (beyond the border).
It recieved mixed reviews but I actually liked it.

 

[Big Nev]

Non-US WW II movies?

I know the OP specifically stated a preference for more modern films but seriously, most modern films about WW II are, IMHO, pretty crap.

So some personal favourites…

The Dambusters.
633 Squadron (total fiction but the OP did mention Pearl Harbor & Fury)
Speaking of Pearl Harbor, Tora Tora Tora.
The Guns of Naverone.
The Eagle Has Landed.
The Cruel Sea.
Sink The Bismark.
The Heroes of Telemark
Attack on the Iron Coast (and others by the same team)
Submarine X-1, Hells Boats, Mosquito Squadron, The Thousand Plane Raid, The Last Escape.

All of the above are based on actual events, although how heavily based is often somewhat obscure, (OK, there was a Second World War) but for entertainment value, they’re all a pretty good watch for a Thursday afternoon.

Already mentioned and highly recommended.

Das Boot, The Longest Day, A Bridge Too Far, The Battle of Britain. Letters from Iwo Jima (even though it is an American made film) I'll list it.

For pure entertainment value, Kelly’s Heroes (one of the greatest war movies of all time) and no list would be complete without The Dirty Dozen & Von Ryan’s Express.

More thought provoking

The Boy in The Striped Pyjamas and Empire of The Sun. Windtalkers, IMHO, wasn’t as bad as its critics said.


Finally, I’d like to thank the OP for opening this thread and everyone who has contributed. Having been brought-up on a staple diet of British war movies, it seems (not surprisingly) that there are a LOT of good movies out there that I’d never heard of.

 

[agus92]

I omit this one because it's half american, but it's not the usual shot 'em up, but the best commando movie ever (and I think the one that started the genre): Where Eagles Dare.

 

[safe-keeper]

While not WWII, there is Lebanon, which is an Israeli tank movie advertised as "Das Boot in a tank instead of a u-boat". Not that much happens in it (I could sum up the plot in a pretty short paragraph), and I personally don't feel you miss much if you pass it up, but it's out there if you're interested.

I see it's already been mentioned, but the Norwegian film Max Manus: Man of War was pretty good, too. It's about Norwegian resistance fighters/saboteurs, and has good characters and plot, not just action sequences.

 

[Onisuzume]

No-one mentioned The Cockpit yet? o.0
Also, while not WW2; Im Westen Nichts Neues remains a classic.

 

[BestOfTheWest]

While not WWII, there is Lebanon, which is an Israeli tank movie advertised as "Das Boot in a tank instead of a u-boat". Not that much happens in it (I could sum up the plot in a pretty short paragraph), and I personally don't feel you miss much if you pass it up, but it's out there if you're interested.

With "Lebanon" and "Beaufort" already named, it should be said that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waltz_with_Bashir
is the best israeli war movie that I have seen so far. (but its an animated movie)

As an alternative to "Lebanon", I would recomand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beast_(1988_film)
which does not spend all of its time inside a tank, but much of it. And its way better than Lebanon, btw.

 

[safe-keeper]

Oh my god, how could I forget Waltz with Bashir. Everyone should watch it. Pretty moody, earnest and also beautiful in its own right.

 

[TheRomanRuler]

Talvisota, or Winter War which is already mentioned, and letters from Ivo Jima, which i think has also been mentioned. Downfall is not about fighting like those 2 are, but it must be mentioned for it is the best movie about WW2 there is.
An old Finnish classic movie "Tuntematon Sotilas" or "unkown soldier" made in 1955 is also great, altough i don`t think you will enjoy it if you don`t speak good Finnish. It is humoristic and not really about fighting either, but it must be mentioned.

 

[Caesar15]

It is difficult to see past that last standpoint! It is pretty disturbing to see a crap tank, immobilized and stationary at that, fight countless Germans from dusk to dawn in summertime without getting blown up or running out of ammunition. Do the maths on the hours of constant firing. It is also typical of American movies that the Germans run around a few meters in front of the gun instead of any other side of the tank. Unfortunately it is not just this scene that is totally ridiculous; the entire film is.

The Finns make good films:

Framom främsta linjen http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377935/ (with English subtitles)
Tali Ihantala http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0378848/ (with English subtitles)

Bearable American-made films are really, really rare. I thought When trumpets fade was ok. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0135706/

How is it a typical American film? The soldiers are displayed as kind of asshole-like and not the most civilized, the American soldiers that is. Which isn't very common in other american films. And the Sherman is not a crap tank..

If there are no American films that are bearable to you..then you have some really hard biases or you simply haven't seen that many.

I will have to disagree on a couple of points, the movie having a Tiger in spite of them being rare I can understand. Tigers look cool and better that Pz IVs. But the rest?

The final scene is so ridiculous the whole movie crumbles down with it. It's particularly funny how they clearly display the Germans with lots of panzerfausts.
The characters are the worst though (not the actors). Unbelievably predictable and cliché. The hardened boss who doesn't talk much and is respected everywhere and dies at the end, the religious freak, the weirdo, the Mexican, the novice that turns out to be good... they're all there.
The "women" scene is rather poor. It tries to build a climax over whether they will be raped or not, makes the novice fall in love with one of them and then they die. Could see that one coming.

I'm not trying to convince anyone here, if you liked the movie or found it interesting, I'm happy for you. I was massively disappointed.

I found Generation War way more realistic in this sense (even though there are a couple of crazy things there too).

The religious freak? The guy quotes lines from the bible, how does that make him a religious freak? I don't remember him jumping out of the tank and yelling "The Power of Christ compels you!"

 

[Victor Cortez]

The religious freak? The guy quotes lines from the bible, how does that make him a religious freak? I don't remember him jumping out of the tank and yelling "The Power of Christ compels you!"

Quoting lines from the bible makes you a religious freak to me. Come on, don't take this too seriously, I was simply annoyed with the fact that they had to put a religious (freak or not) character in the mix simply because it's cool to do so. He doesn't expand on the inner conflict that must arise (I suppose) within religious people during a war.
As a character, he doesn't tell me anything and I'm afraid, like a I said before, that it's simply a cliche.

 

[Caesar15]

Quoting lines from the bible makes you a religious freak to me. Come on, don't take this too seriously, I was simply annoyed with the fact that they had to put a religious (freak or not) character in the mix simply because it's cool to do so. He doesn't expand on the inner conflict that must arise (I suppose) within religious people during a war.
As a character, he doesn't tell me anything and I'm afraid, like a I said before, that it's simply a cliche.

Yeah I know, but religious freaks remind me of the guy who visited that art gallery in Texas, not some guy who quotes the bible. I am only replying just because he seemed a bit too light to be classified as that.

 

[Beagá]

Cross of Iron

Yay

 

[Jonas]

Come on, most movies (in general) are crap, and I've seen my fair share of awful Yankee movies, but I wouldn't say good ones are rare, even when restricting it to just war films.

Have you ever seen Letters from Iwo Jima as mentioned before, or Band of Brothers and it's sister series the Pacific? Those are all pretty good American stuff off the top of my head.
They output so much stuff, statistically some of it has to be good sometimes. "Really, really rare" is just plain not true, even if it's less because of how good their film industry is, and more of how big their film industry is...

I have seen all those. I have indeed seen a great deal of the films mentioned in the thread, with the exception of the French films and Battle under Orion. I have even seen some of the Russian and all of the Chineese films mentioned. I have a LOT of complaints on Band of Brothers and the Pacific. I saw 2 episodes of each and then found it impossible to bear them. Letters from Iwo Jima is okay. I guess my expectations were too high. I saw an interview with Eastwood before I saw it and Flags of our fathers. He complained about the Hollywood petrol-bomb shells and said he was happy to be rid of them and make more realistic films. I was not happy to see naval and other artillery fire huge molotov cocktails in spite of this.

The Tiger vs Sherman scene in Fury is unrealistic to me in completely different ways from what is described above. I find it difficult to believe a Tiger tank engaged in combat with Shermans at such a distance would CLOSE the distance willingly. The entire film is bristling with idiocy.

 

[Beagá]

Band of Brothers is excellent. And has no over the top BS. The Pacific is not as good because its lamer, somehow.

Fury on the other hand is... disturbing from what I´ve read.

 

[Zupanicarr]

I saw 2 episodes of each and then found it impossible to bear them.

If you only saw two episodes, you missed best of both series, and don't really have much to complain about. Which episodes did you watch? In my personal opinion, Bastogne is the best episode, watch that(And the rest of the show).
As for the Pacific, it shines later on, I'm not a fan of the first half of the show, but later it starts digging into those themes of the Yankies not being much better.
Anyway, if you can't watch those, than you probably can't watch many war films in general, American or no... Might want to lower your standards a bit, it's hard to find stuff better than those. (Though I'm sure they're there, it's not easy for stuff to compare to BoB or the Pacific)

Band of Brothers is excellent. And has no over the top BS. The Pacific is not as good because its lamer, somehow.

Band of Brothers has a bit of the over the top stuff, but less than most movies, which is acceptable considering it's an entire show.
I wouldn't say the Pacific is not as good because it's lamer, it's by far more graphic and extreme than BoB. I think it's not as good because it's harder to remember the characters(probably because most either die, or are changed out half-way through), it's harder to connect with the characters(probably because most get pretty twisted by the end), and it's annoying how much it focuses on sex scenes(probably because HBO).
I would rather watch them getting screwed by the weather, the islands, themselves, and the Japanese, and not Aussie girls...

Still, the anti-war themes in the Pacific are far more prevalent, which I think is a good thing, and Joe Mazzello(otherwise known as the kid in Jurassic Park) is really good, and every time I watch the Pacific, I do like it more, and I also notice more...
I'd advise watching it again, maybe you'll start liking more like I did?

 

[tommylotto]

You guys are too hard, particularly on the American films. First, remember it is show business. It is not a historical documentary. SHOW - BUSINESS. It has to be entertaining and dramatic. It also has to make money, so it is bound to play to its audience. Call it poetic license, willing suspension of disbelief, or whatever, but all movies contain copious amounts of B.S., because they are trying to give the audience a show -- to entertain them. The Fury Sherman v. Tiger duel was pretty exciting. The combat distances were wrong but then it would have been boring to never see the two tanks in the same screen. The Hollywood show required that the distances be closed. And the Business part required Brad Pitt to survive until the end of the movie. So, the Tiger unhistorically targeted the 75mm Shermans before going after the more dangerous 76mm Sherman. And the final scene, eh, it is what it is. Think of it as an impressionistic remembrance of the survivor -- the bullets were flying, the Germans were coming in in waves, it lasted seemingly forever. That may have been how he remembered it, but certainly not how it happened. But give credit where it was due. I saw phosphorous rounds, I saw whizzing AP rounds, I saw enough to make the WoT crowd wet their pants. Mission accomplished.

Anyway, Hollywood makes most movies generally. So, on average, you can expect more bad and more good movies to come out of America. Personally, I believe they tend to produce the best and the worst, and some times both at the same time.

 

[Zupanicarr]

You guys are too hard, particularly on the American films. First, remember it is show business. It is not a historical documentary. SHOW - BUSINESS. It has to be entertaining and dramatic. It also has to make money, so it is bound to play to its audience. Call it poetic license, willing suspension of disbelief, or whatever, but all movies contain copious amounts of B.S., because they are trying to give the audience a show -- to entertain them. The Fury Sherman v. Tiger duel was pretty exciting. The combat distances were wrong but then it would have been boring to never see the two tanks in the same screen. The Hollywood show required that the distances be closed. And the Business part required Brad Pitt to survive until the end of the movie. So, the Tiger unhistorically targeted the 75mm Shermans before going after the more dangerous 76mm Sherman. And the final scene, eh, it is what it is. Think of it as an impressionistic remembrance of the survivor -- the bullets were flying, the Germans were coming in in waves, it lasted seemingly forever. That may have been how he remembered it, but certainly not how it happened. But give credit where it was due. I saw phosphorous rounds, I saw whizzing AP rounds, I saw enough to make the WoT crowd wet their pants. Mission accomplished.

Anyway, Hollywood makes most movies generally. So, on average, you can expect more bad and more good movies to come out of America. Personally, I believe they tend to produce the best and the worst, and some times both at the same time.

I agree to a certain point. If it's offensively inaccurate, there's a problem.
I'll admit the action scenes in the Patriot are pretty damn entertaining, but the entire movie is BS, kinda ruins the general flow of it. It's fun to watch, but I would never call it a good movie.
(Then again, otherwise we probably wouldn't have Assassin's Creed 3, for better or for worse)

EDIT: For clarity, I was using the Patriot as a general example.

Another example is U-571, a movie that I find hilarious simply because everyone hated it, except one of the original British officers who really first captured an enigma device.