non-scandanavian order

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Originally posted by Doomdark:


Personally, I am a little disappointed. I much prefer to play games and read manuals in English. Most recently I was exposed to the Diablo II and Icewind Dale manuals in Swedish, and they were outright embarassing.

Don't worry Doomie you will not be disappointed...

/Greven

 

[Bogey]

In order to edit the files you will have to know english. Obviously that won't be a problem for anyone reading this message.

 

[pcongre]

'Well, all I can say is if you are having problems with a dominant rectum I'd see a doctor if I were you'
Trust me, I have, but none of them has been able so far to find the solution to my problem. (crying)Most of them don't trust me,and think i'm just kinda kidding or sumpthing, but I'm telling you:TRUST ME, ONE DAY THERE WILL BE A PLACE FOR US, THE ONES THAT HAVE OUR AS*ES DOMINATED, AND IT WILL BE REAL SOON!!

PS:you cant forbid me to use this signature with your fascist propaganda.. the democracy must perdure everywhere, even in this forum

PPS:I guess I've seen too much sp episodes now.. I know you wont believe me, but in real life im a normal personal that usually dont say either f*** nore ***********. I even feed the pidgeons in a park near to where I live. Seriously..

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River styx condominiums, rectum dominate

 

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I think most Americans know that Vikings are from the SPAM factory...

 

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Originally posted by kdp:
That's the price of being the Scandinavian country people know about. Ask a non-European person where the Vikings came from and he'll say Sweden, not Denmark or Norway. Nobody ever bothers to translate anything into Danish (unless they're forced by law) - which, of course, is also a major reason for us being almost fluent in English.

kdp

Well, I read an article in (IIRC) Time about vikings and they said that all vikings were Norsemen and consequently the Norsemen travelled east. And in the recent viking movie with Antonio Banderas, I heard at least one viking speaking Norwegian, but none speaking Swedish. But I have read (in a nationalistic, not completely objective) Swedish history work that it was the Swedish Vikings (sometimes called Ruses, hence the present name Russia) that travelled down the rivers to the Middle East and founded cities like Kiev.

So at least the Americans don't think the vikings came from Sweden. They think that people from Sweden joddle and make clocks...

/Martin

P.S. Don't take this post too seriously...

 

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Originally posted by AdMartin:
Well, I read an article in (IIRC) Time about vikings and they said that all vikings were Norsemen and consequently the Norsemen travelled east. And in the recent viking movie with Antonio Banderas, I heard at least one viking speaking Norwegian, but none speaking Swedish. But I have read (in a nationalistic, not completely objective) Swedish history work that it was the Swedish Vikings (sometimes called Ruses, hence the present name Russia) that travelled down the rivers to the Middle East and founded cities like Kiev.

Hmmmmmm. That means it is only the Danish vikings that are 'forgotten'.

Well, at least the English won't forget that the Danish vikings conquered and controlled most of England for some time. And if they forget I'll just remind them by doing it again in EU.

kdp

 

[Johan]

Originally posted by AdMartin:
But I have read (in a nationalistic, not completely objective) Swedish history work that it was the Swedish Vikings (sometimes called Ruses, hence the present name Russia) that travelled down the rivers to the Middle East and founded cities like Kiev.

hmm.. its hard to know what happened over a thousand year ago, but.
* Roslagen, or the law of Ros is the coast and archipelago of central swealand, the core part of sweden.
(hmm, translating lagen to law sounds wrong, some swede please correct me..)

* There are thousands of runestones in sweden from that era, which refer to the travels over the slavic lands and traveling to Särkland(arab-world), Blåland(africa) and Miklagård(Byzantium).

* Does the word 'Ruotsi' ring any bells to anyone? Its the name that the finns still call us by.

* If you check the archives and history from Byzantium, you'll hear a lot of talk about the rus vikings. Even georgian historical annals refer to them.

/Johan

 

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Originally posted by Pole:
I think most Americans know that Vikings are from the SPAM factory...

Yep, that's for sure... A study in the mid 90s (according to the excellent Bill Bryson's book 'Notes from a big country') showed that American high school seniors know practically next to nothing (42% are not even able to give the name of one asian country, one third thinks that Roosevelt was president during the Vietnam war and that Colombus sails to America after 1750)...
So I guess the average American must think that Viking is the name of a baseball team or a brand of salmon...
Hopefully we can see here that many american are not totaly dumb !

 

[bjornkri]

Originally posted by AdMartin:
Well, I read an article in (IIRC) Time about vikings and they said that all vikings were Norsemen and consequently the Norsemen travelled east. <snip> But I have read (in a nationalistic, not completely objective) Swedish history work that it was the Swedish Vikings (sometimes called Ruses, hence the present name Russia) that travelled down the rivers to the Middle East and founded cities like Kiev.

Ah, finally something I can at least pretend to know something about
There is some truth in the statement that all vikings were Norsemen (although there were quite a few Icelandic, Danish and Swedish vikings too), mainly because technically the Vikings were only those who traveled west over the oceans. The very name 'Vikingur' implies that they were seafarers, as 'Vik' means bay (roughly). The blokes who decided to take the rivers to the east (Swedes mainly) are usually referred to as Vaerings (Væringjar, dunno where that name came from). And yes they founded cities like Kiev, they named it Kænugarður (Kæna = ship, garður = city, AFAIK), and Kiev is still known by that name in Iceland. And regarding the travels of the Vaerings, I read somewhere that they actually came close to sacking the city of Constantinople. Emperor Michael III was away on a campaign with the bulk of his armed forces. There was nothing to stop the fearsome Northmen, but at the last minute they were turned back by either a great storm (intervention of the Virgin, of course), or a massive bribe. Depends on the source, I guess. I don't know how much truth there is in this story, but it's a nice one, nevertheless



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I've got a firm grip on reality. Just not this one.

 

[bjornkri]

Originally posted by Johan:
* Roslagen, or the law of Ros is the coast and archipelago of central swealand, the core part of sweden.
(hmm, translating lagen to law sounds wrong, some swede please correct me..)

I think Roslaw or Law of Ros is OK... Same as Danelaw / Danelagu (??) in England during the Danish occupation I'd presume.

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I've got a firm grip on reality. Just not this one.

 

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There was a great article on the history of the Vikings and how they colonized Iceland, then Greenland, then parts of North America in Time a few months ago, but the link to Time.com has been moved. It's too bad because it was informative about the highly developed Viking art forms and seafaring ability and went a long way toward downplaying the modern image of Vikings as berserk raiders. If it's any consolation, I found this image from a story of some people who successfully re-created a trans-atlantic crossing in a Viking longboat.

Finally, most Americans commonly associate the Fierce Norsemen from Scandinavia with the Minnesota Viking Football team or else a comic strip character called 'Hagar the Horrible.'

 

[Oranje]

Originally posted by Falp:
Yep, that's for sure... A study in the mid 90s (according to the excellent Bill Bryson's book 'Notes from a big country') showed that American high school seniors know practically next to nothing...

Actually, in 1979, when visiting the USA, I found that Rand Mc Nally, a large US publisher of travelling books and atlasses, employs at least a couple of these people, as one of their travelling guides described the Netherlands as 'a small scandinavian country, capital The Hague'.
So maybe the buyers of that book think the Vikings actually came from the Netherlands?
.

greetings, Oranje

 

[unmerged(164)]

Please Stop.....I hate the fact that the youth of America are Geographically challenged. It is pathetic and makes me ill just thinking about it. BTW I ruled in Geography when I was that age. I was drawing World maps in 4th grade and loved geography. So not all Americans are helpless in this area of expertise. All American scholastics are focused on Math and English, everything else is unimportant.

As for the Vikings......for years there were several large 'clans' one in Sweden, one in Denmark and one in Norway. Very Feudal in organization. During the height of the Viking era the Danish King held lose sway over the other clans. They paid tithe and took actions at the Danish Kings direction (when they felt like it). My understanding it was a lose confederation and that the Danish king could call on the 'clans' or 'tribes' but this was rarely done. I do believe that annual tribute was paid to him though.

 

[Doomdark]

As for the Vikings......for years there were several large 'clans' one in Sweden, one in Denmark and one in Norway.

Clans? Maybe you could call them tribes, although I would say they had already passed that stage and become regular nations, much as they remain today (albeit with different capitals). However, the awareness of nationality was weaker, and the spoken language was pretty much the same in all the Nordic countries. I think it is dangerous to use the word 'clans' in relation to the Vikings since their society was not particularily clannish, but rather quite cosmopolitan.

Very Feudal in organization.

Quite the opposite. There were few official positions of power within the state and only an embryo of nobility (the jarls - great chieftains). Power stemmed mostly from riches, so the most successful traders and raiders usually became regional leaders.

 

[Marcus]

So I guess the average American must think that Viking is the name of a baseball team or a brand of salmon...

Actually, there is a football team called the Minnesota Vikings. I agree that USA students don't know anything, this is a fact, I think their education system rated slightly below that of Bolivia.

About the translations, there are pros and there are cons. Of course it really sucks that you have to play Dungeon Keeper in Dutch which the most horrible translations ever coming out of your speaker. There is an up side however, if it's five in the morning and you're drunk and stoned, there usually isn't that much on TV, the solution (only for REALLY drunnk people) start playing Dungeon Keeper in Swedish (while you don't speak a word) this is truly hilarious!!!!

Later

 

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Dang, Marcus posted just before I could.

All Americans know that the Vikings came from Minneapolis.

While the American educational system is worse as a whole than that of most major European countries, it is actually very patchy. For example, the systems in the Great Plains states (ie N. Dakota, S. Dakota, Nebraska, etc.) are of very high quality, while the major urban districts (New York, Chicago, Los Angeles) are extremely poor. I grew up around Chicago and went to top ranked schools that were within 2-3 miles of some of the worst in the region. Blanket judgements are seldom justified.

Scott

 

[unmerged(241)]

Well, my question that I posted on another thread is just as good here...

Because I can not yet speak the laguage of Sveeden, nor the language of Le Frances, but I do speak the language of Goimany and Ing-land, could I order the game in German and still play it here in the great land of the Amis?

(Spelling intentional, btw, just so the Swedes do not feel slighted by any mispelling of Sweeden...err...Sved...errr....Sveri...err...Sweden. Yeah, that's it)

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'Once more unto the breach, dear friends!'

 

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Hmmm, this stereotypical assault on the US educational system is no worse than about a dozen US misperceptions about European cultures. US students live in a cultural atmosphere where the priority is business, finance, or computers. History is not given great precedence, but I am a World History teacher here in the US and I must say that my students are quite sharp, even when it comes to European history. And I hate to be brash by stating this, but knowing which Scandinavian peoples went which way in which exact year is not exactly something that will get one a job here...which is after all the point, is it not? I mean, I understand that taken as a whole the US educational system may lag behind some European systems, but if one looks deeper they would realize that individual schools and areas actually rate higher than some European systems.
This is mostly a result of our basic premise in the US that local/state systems run their own affairs and structure their own curriculum, whereas in Europe education seems to be more centrally defined and controlled.

So please, people...your perceptions of the US educational system as so woefully incompetent is as much an inaccurate stereotype as saying that all Irish are drunkards, all Swedish women are big chested, all Germans are uptight and unfriendly, and all French are arrogant and mean. But hey, if it makes you feel better about your own nation, then go right ahead.

By the way, I know at least a dozen people who are hobby historians who could tell you which buttons some of those Norsemen wore. And I challenge you to this: Should I be teaching my students in the short pace of a year the minute details of 'which Norwegians went where and which Swedes went where' or rather the cultural, intellectual, social and political reasons for the 'Viking' movements in the first place, as well as their impact on European history in the Middle Ages??

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'Once more unto the breach, dear friends!'

 

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Hi Sting,
I am not sure this forum is the right place for such a discussion but it is clear that stereotypes are many and always stupid.
However, a debate about educational systems is perhaps more on the aim of the system.

You say the goal is to get a job... Well we had in France a Minister who said : 'school is not here to produce salaries but to produce citizens.' I tend to agree with him, although I admit that a citizen with a job is better than a jobless one.

History is not a question of date and numbers, it is a question of society. You cannot understand European societies without undersanding their histories. And ignoring them just strengthen stereotypes. As a Frenchman, I am always amazed at the generally abysmal level of knowledge of my people towards Germany (amongst many others). Therefore all stupid stereotypes about fat beer-drinking fascists you can hear.

Focusing on finance, business and computers is fine after you have got the necessary education in history, philosophy, litterature etc. that allow one to speak of somewhat more elaborate concepts than 'how much do you earn?'.

As the saying goes:
-Poorly intelligent people talk about people
-Middly intelligent people talk about events
-Intellignet people talk about ideas
Ideas don't come easy with finance and business. A German friend of mine in California right now send me a mail where she says : 'Incredible how the people I meet are materialist. Just another reason to prefer good old Europe'

I have met some wonderful and very fine Americans but on the other hand, I have met students of a business course at the University that could ask such amazingly stupid questions (ie 'is there elctricity in Europe?' - this is real life experience) that you can only wonder what kind of society/educational system brought this pathetic result.
My perception is not 'so woefully incompetent' but is in adequation with what I consider an educational system should do.

 

[unmerged(28)]

Originally posted by Sting:
Hmmm, this stereotypical assault on the US educational system is no worse than about a dozen US misperceptions about European cultures.

True...

And I challenge you to this: Should I be teaching my students in the short pace of a year the minute details of 'which Norwegians went where and which Swedes went where' or rather the cultural, intellectual, social and political reasons for the 'Viking' movements in the first place, as well as their impact on European history in the Middle Ages??


Not much of a challenge actually. You must choose the later of course. Got to learn to crawl before you learn to walk. But it is still interesting that the U.S educational system seems to give very low priority to subjects like History and Geography and Europeans don't. The purpose of an education is not necissarily to get a job. I think that view is highly disputable. The idea of life-long-learning in opposition to the notion above is about developing as a social creature in an everchanging world, not to become a machine; in a short perspective that would be eat, work , sleep in the long run it would be hoarding money. Money can be very good, but without any serious knowledge of the world ones choices will not be very great; beer, pizza, porsche...

/Greven