Non-Norse Germanic content

[Thure]

Isn't Beowulf a story about swedish people?
I'm sorry if anyone intend to use Beowulf for some kind of nationalism but it was deeply influenced by "Norse" stories. And I'm not sure that "Norse" mean anything by the way. I don't see why we could use only one word for so many different people while, for example, we need to use a lot of different ethnonyms to speak about the France of the same period... I prefer to say "Scandinavian", which is purely geographical. Because, you know, Scandinavian myths have probably been influenced by the Finn myths... And I would be happy to see some Kalevala into this game.

Just like in Tolkien's works by the way. In Europe, you can't imagine one mythology completely seperated from the others (even the Basque, with the Lamia...).

B ut Finnland isn't part of Scandinavia geographically... Finnland and Karelia aren't Scandinavia. There is a own word for Scandinavia + Finnland + Karelia. Fennoscandia. Scandinavia is just the part of Norway and Sweden (and a small part of northern Finnland). Oh and with Scandinavia you would exclude the Danes, a important part of the Norse world.

 

[Wenla]

Finns don't even speak a Indo-European language

You are right (of course), we Finns belong to our own language group, Finnish-Hungarian. We started to move together from (about) Ural, and in some day we got to the crossroad where was a sign "South - North". The wise ones who could read, went to south and they became Hungarian, and the stupid ones, who couldn't read, went to north and they became Finns.

I remember this old joke in every winter when here is (at least) one meter snow and (at least) minus 25 degrees (Celsius) temperature...

 

[Red_warning]

Isn't Beowulf a story about swedish people?
I'm sorry if anyone intend to use Beowulf for some kind of nationalism but it was deeply influenced by "Norse" stories. And I'm not sure that "Norse" mean anything by the way. I don't see why we could use only one word for so many different people while, for example, we need to use a lot of different ethnonyms to speak about the France of the same period... I prefer to say "Scandinavian", which is purely geographical. Because, you know, Scandinavian myths have probably been influenced by the Finn myths... And I would be happy to see some Kalevala into this game.

Just like in Tolkien's works by the way. In Europe, you can't imagine one mythology completely seperated from the others (even the Basque, with the Lamia...).

The Norse were of the same ethnicity but they belonged to different tribes, this is not the case in France which has always had a much more varied ethnic makeup (Celts, Germanic tribes, Italic tribes, Greeks etc). There lies the main difference. And they would probably not have taken offence by being referred to as one group, they even called their language "Danish tongue".

 

[Ivashanko]

I still do hope that non-Norse content is included, if only in the background. It might be interesting to see possible interference by outside pantheons or a spreading religious belief that could threaten the order of the world (or the chaos that Loki wants to bring after it is over). But I doubt such a thing will happen, and that's okay as long as the source material is effectively brought to life.

 

[Ezumiyr]

Sort of, Beowulf is the story of a Geat though. The Swedes basically defeated the Geats and incorporated them into Sweden.

Scandinavian does not equal Finn. Scandinavians are Germanic people ( and basically the founders, where all Germanic peoples came from) and Finns are not. Finns don't even speak a Indo-European language, and you should look up some of the latest genetic studies of Finns compared to their neighbors. But nice try BTW. Just your knowledge/understanding is quite sad.

I think you didn't read what I wrote.
I said that Scandinavian myths probably were influenced by Finn myths. Of course they have a base of indo-european germanic mythology.
Genetics has nothing to do with that.
I never saif that Finland was located in Scandinavia. I said I prefered that name because it implies that Scandinavians live near Finland (and in fact, there are Finno-Ugric people in northern Scandinavia).

A lot of people seams to think that there has always been nations and homogeneous beliefs and cultures. That's not the case... I'm pretty sure that all the northern territories of today Norway and Sweden were inhabited by Finno-Ugric people.
Also, I'm a linguist. Northern germanic languages are not my speciality, but I do know that German (Deutsch) borrowed words from finno-ugric languages (probably not directly though).
And as I said, Tolkien used both northern germanic and finnish myths for his books and the languages he invented.

The situation here in France is really different, but I see that some people find it offensive when I say "their" myths are not "pure". This is quite sad.

 

[TeutonicDane23]

I think you didn't read what I wrote.
I said that Scandinavian myths probably were influenced by Finn myths. Of course they have a base of indo-european germanic mythology.
Genetics has nothing to do with that.
I never saif that Finland was located in Scandinavia. I said I prefered that name because it implies that Scandinavians live near Finland (and in fact, there are Finno-Ugric people in northern Scandinavia).

A lot of people seams to think that there has always been nations and homogeneous beliefs and cultures. That's not the case... I'm pretty sure that all the northern territories of today Norway and Sweden were inhabited by Finno-Ugric people.
Also, I'm a linguist. Northern germanic languages are not my speciality, but I do know that German (Deutsch) borrowed words from finno-ugric languages (probably not directly though).
And as I said, Tolkien used both northern germanic and finnish myths for his books and the languages he invented.

The situation here in France is really different, but I see that some people find it offensive when I say "their" myths are not "pure". This is quite sad.

I believe you are actually quite "sad" and completely lost. But that is fantastic you felt you needed to state your "wild and fantastic" opinion in a thread about non Norse, but Germanic mythology.

 

[Thiomay]

I believe you are actually quite "sad" and completely lost. But that is fantastic you felt you needed to state your "wild and fantastic" opinion in a thread about non Norse, but Germanic mythology.

I believe that is a rude statement.

See what I did there without attacking you personally. You seem ignore the other arguments and discredit Ezumiyr for bringing up Tolkien. Granted Lord of the Rings is neither historical nor did Tolkien live in the relevent time period. But he did work with mythology which is right on topic. So you might inquire what exactly Ezumiyr meant before dismissing the argument.

Now I have never been to 'the North' but every map I have seen makes some Finno-Ugric influences sound possible. Is it so outrageous really? The Sami people definitely live in Scandinavia (if you can trust anything in the internet or paradoxes own games) especially around the time when those myths the game is based on where written down and before.

 

[Ezumiyr]

I believe you are actually quite "sad" and completely lost. But that is fantastic you felt you needed to state your "wild and fantastic" opinion in a thread about non Norse, but Germanic mythology.

Title of the topic: "Non-Norse Germanic content". that implies that some non-Norse content could be introduced in the Runemaster. I thought that this additionnal content could not be (only) borrowed from the south (germanic) but also from the east (Finno-Ugric). Then someone saif that it was kinda stupid to say that because it has nothing to do with norse. Now you say that I speak too much about norse. Of course I'm lost! I won't speak again with you, you are absolutely illogical.

 

[Thure]

Title of the topic: "Non-Norse Germanic content". that implies that some non-Norse content could be introduced in the Runemaster. I thought that this additionnal content could not be (only) borrowed from the south (germanic) but also from the east (Finno-Ugric). Then someone saif that it was kinda stupid to say that because it has nothing to do with norse. Now you say that I speak too much about norse. Of course I'm lost! I won't speak again with you, you are absolutely illogical.

Yes, the title is 'Non-Norse Germanic content' So Germanic content without Norse. Anglo-Saxon, Central Germanic. Maybe even East Germanic (but I don't know if any myths of Langobards or Gotes are known). I personally have no problem to discuse other mythologies too.

 

[Andrelvis]

Yes, the title is 'Non-Norse Germanic content' So Germanic content without Norse. Anglo-Saxon, Central Germanic. Maybe even East Germanic (but I don't know if any myths of Langobards or Gotes are known). I personally have no problem to discuse other mythologies too.

Yes. The topic is about content from mythologies of Germanic cultures other than the Norse one (i.e. Anglosaxon, Rhenish, etc.). Finland, although sharing some similarities with Sweden, Norway and Denmark due to history and its geographical position, is not Germanic, and thus Finnish mythological content would probably better discussed in another thread.