I know more of them will exist, but will they now be a viable alternative to Europe? In other words, will they be competitive?
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I hope so. It makes me mad that the American Indians are so damn weak. Yes, they did not have the ability to make massive fortifications the Euros had, but c'mon. In the game, as it stands, they are like a fly vs the entire American Navy! They had some success, and I am glad, that i saw them mention something about adding another American Indian nation(Cherokee?). But to suggest that they were so weka is damn untrue. Listen, I live in Canada, and I learned all about how cunning the Indians were(and this is actually from a fairly unbiased University prof). They helped secure French and English presence here. The thing is, Canada at the time was not important. Sure, you had Newfoundland, but with all that Cod, they could have just stayed there. As it was, if they had had the Indian nations as an enemy, and not some as friends, well, they may just have given up on it. Because they really did not need to send people here. They had the southern clolonies(the US) and really, why bother? It is cold, not much to eat(unless you really really like fish
)and the natives could wipe you out without you knowing(Guerilla Warfare, anyone?)
So yes. As it stands, It seems the Europena Powers are the be all, end all of the game. What was the rest of the world? A bunch of natives and such calling out to the European Nations:
"Oh, Please come and subjugate me! I really hate not have European masters to rule over me!"
Please, can this be addressed? make it not so easy to take over the world?
)and the natives could wipe you out without you knowing(Guerilla Warfare, anyone?)So yes. As it stands, It seems the Europena Powers are the be all, end all of the game. What was the rest of the world? A bunch of natives and such calling out to the European Nations:
"Oh, Please come and subjugate me! I really hate not have European masters to rule over me!"
Please, can this be addressed? make it not so easy to take over the world?
Oh dear
Native americans were insignificant compared to Europe, Asia and even African nations at this time (I'm excluding Aztecs and Incas because these aren't the nations your talking about). Having respect for the cultural values of the native americans does not mean that they were a potential world superpower at any time.
I'm sorry to say that as far as Europe was concerned at this time the natives were crying out "Oh, Please come and subjugate me! I really hate not have European masters to rule over me!". You see we had to convert all those heathens so that they could enjoy the benefits of Christianity.
American (and Canadian) sensitivities aside, the conquest of the new world should be relatively striaght forward for the Europeans. It's asia that should be far more difficult (and also North Africa - it is ludicrous not getting any nationalism outside of Europe).
Native americans were insignificant compared to Europe, Asia and even African nations at this time (I'm excluding Aztecs and Incas because these aren't the nations your talking about). Having respect for the cultural values of the native americans does not mean that they were a potential world superpower at any time.
I'm sorry to say that as far as Europe was concerned at this time the natives were crying out "Oh, Please come and subjugate me! I really hate not have European masters to rule over me!". You see we had to convert all those heathens so that they could enjoy the benefits of Christianity.
American (and Canadian) sensitivities aside, the conquest of the new world should be relatively striaght forward for the Europeans. It's asia that should be far more difficult (and also North Africa - it is ludicrous not getting any nationalism outside of Europe).
The problem is that EU does not model the great Native American nations very well. Compared to France they were not major military powers. Compared to French colonies in the Americas, however, they were. In EU, a player can put 60,000 troops on the Iroquois border and overwhelm them. Historically, this was not feasible and not justifiable.
The truth is, however, that in all the GCs and IGCs I have played, the Iroquois have only once lost one single province to a major power. The AI simply does not generally fight with them, and when they do the AI does not usually keep enough troops in North America to deal with them.
Only human players take advantage of their weakness in the game. The same will probably hold true in EU2.
The truth is, however, that in all the GCs and IGCs I have played, the Iroquois have only once lost one single province to a major power. The AI simply does not generally fight with them, and when they do the AI does not usually keep enough troops in North America to deal with them.
Only human players take advantage of their weakness in the game. The same will probably hold true in EU2.
A lot of human players don't bother attacking them - for half a dozen provinces when there are so many others out there, it just isn't worth bothering.
I don't either. I was just saying that if someone thinks they are too weak, then they should leave them alone. The AI does.
Disease
I thought one of the reasons the native americans were so weak in the first game was because of the crippling effect of European diseases, thats what aided the Europeans most in their wars of conqest.
I thought one of the reasons the native americans were so weak in the first game was because of the crippling effect of European diseases, thats what aided the Europeans most in their wars of conqest.
The thing I always found to be rediculous about the Iroquois was their population levels. All their provinces have about 300 to 400 people in them while the territorries around them have 1000 to 2000 natives in them. This seems rediculous to me. It is totally contradictory and stupid and is mearly another way of giving the non-european nations the shaft and keeping them ripe for european conquest. I always give the Iroquois an extra 1000 people in all their provinces. I sure am glad they are going to do a better job on the non-european nations in EUII.
Yea, their pop. levels are a joke, but why spend valuable money on those ridiculously low tax values in the Iroquois provinces, when you could be raking in the money in the tobacco fields of Virginia?
Yes, I ment that I edited them. I always stick a 1 infront of all their provinces pop levels as soon as I save my game.
Of course even with this small modification if somebody comes after them hard then they usually get flattened. Atleast the can fight back after I have increased their pops.
Since the Iroqious are represented as a nation state, the population in their provinces is technically only supposed to be that of the main city. You might want to consider that the total population of the "six nations" at the height of their poewer was scarcely more than 12000 people!
Since they start with an army of nearly 30000 men, you can see that sonething's not quite right somewhere!
Since they start with an army of nearly 30000 men, you can see that sonething's not quite right somewhere!
In order to justify their pop you would have to decrease the pop of the territories around them quite a bit.
Except the territories around them are supposed to represent the tribal populations. As I said the Iroqious are treated differently because they are supposedly a nation, and the game differentiates between the two conditions in how they are represented at a fundamental level. Which is what this discussion of the Iroqoius' starting populations ignores.
Players are discovering them ahistorically early anyway. Has no-one noticed that the Iroquois territories, when ruled by the Iroquois, are like the islands with twelve percent growth rates? They expand remarkably rapidly to city status, which is what they should be at when Europeans colonise near them with sufficient strength-human players just colonise too fast or send large armies with conquistadors, which the AI never does.
Then the fault is with the game engine. It doesn't properly simulate true conditions.
Have you checked their pop. levels in the Revolutionary War or Age of Revolutions scenarios? They are at like 100 each instead of the 300-400 in the GC. I think I also saw 1000 in one of them in Age of Merchantilism