Nomads...

[unmerged(175)]

(note, i live in South Dakota so dont be saying i dont know what i am saying when i talk about this)

OK...the Souix was a very large and native american empire...anywho they 'migrated', they would come up as far north as to middle part of North Dakota, anywho, when it was getting close to winter they would take there dogs, hook up there tents and stuff, and then be off going either north or south following the buffalo heards and the weather patterns...now, how will these native american empire's hold territory when they arent there half the time....

 

[unmerged(175)]

thanks for the answers!

 

[Greyshaft]

Originally posted by APKicks on 06-01-2000 09:19 PM
now, how will these native american empire's hold territory when they arent there half the time....

Even after you have fully colonised a province, a neighbour / enemy / anyone can always send colonists through your province to colonise the next province. So colonising the entire North American seaboard does not guarantee you control of the inland areas. The other player's colonists just ignore your cities and garrisons.

Therefore I suggest the EU idea of 'control' of a territory doesn't always indicate our 21st Century notions of custom checkpoints and barbed wire borders, but rather the consent of the inhabitants to allow the controlling player to tax and garrison the provinces. The occurence of revolts and native attacks on cities shows how fragile control over territory was at this time.

Hence the native american 'empires' are an abstraction of their ability to prevent effective settlement of those specific lands by Europeans.

/Graham

 

[unmerged(175)]

actually there were way more native americans than we thought when we arrived, disease killed off a very large majority of them i believe

 

[unmerged(35)]

Many conservative historians place the population of North and South America to be 3/4 to equal to that of Europe before columbus arrived. As was said before dieases killed many off.

 

[unmerged(175)]

i think that would be an understatement, actually we killed Buffalo off to, wich hurt them. Also, and they had a gold problem, it was all over , i think its more like 7/8 that got killed off

 

[KaiserIsak]

The indian populution was finaly stabilized in the 17th century, but now on a stage less then 10% of the old populution.

They were, however, never close to the europen populution.

 

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yes...but still, it's a terrible disaster

 

[Doomdark]

yes...but still, it's a terrible disaster

Quite.

In fact, it was not just a disaster - it was at times a matter of deliberate extermination. The British colonists sold blankets to the natives; blankets that were infected with diseases that were known to be lethal to the natives. (One of the first attempts at biological warfare.) They also sold copious amounts of booze to them, knowing that the Amerind race is not as immune to alcohol as Europeans are.

Consequence? The natives died like flies, and those who survived were made into alcoholics so they could offer no resistance.

/Doomie

 

[unmerged(175)]

Quote:

those who survived were made into alcoholics so they could offer no resistance.


i have many friends that are native american, you racist ass.

 

[Doomdark]

i have many friends that are native american, you racist ass.

Easy now, kiddo. I was talking about EU times here, and the intentions of the European colonists. I am not saying that native americans of today are alcoholics. If anything, those who survived the European invasion should be more resistant to the stuff! Not being an American myself, I have no prejudices regarding this whatsoever.

/Doomie

 

[unmerged(13)]

APKicks,

I think you need to calm down a second. Read forums msgs more than once if need be so you don't misread them and get over-excited, so you don't say something you'll regret later.


Sapura

 

[unmerged(72)]

True as usual, Pan Sapura!
'Word is silver, but silence is gold'.

Nick

 

[unmerged(175)]

yes....but i did re-read it i thought he was making a comment about the indians of today and not of the yesteryear, and if he was talking about back then, it is still not a very kind coment to make, whether it is true or not.

 

[Doomdark]

but i did re-read it i thought he was making a comment about the indians of today and not of the yesteryear

That is probably because you are not quite literate yet kiddo. Shall we go through the sentence in detail?

'The natives died like flies [because they were intentionally infected with plague and diseases], and those who survived [these diseases] were made into alcoholics [because they were given alcohol, against which they had no natural resistance] so they could offer no resistance [against the colonists].'

What part is unclear? Even an 8th grader should have no trouble understanding this.

and if he was talking about back then, it is still not a very kind coment to make, whether it is true or not.

Not very kind? Not very kind to the colonists perhaps, but I said nothing even remotely disparaging about the natives.

Understand this: to the native Americans of those times, alcohol was a drug comparable to heroin or crack in addictive power - only infinitely more available.

The blame for this falls squarely on the European colonists. The British tried exactly the same ploy again in China, where they tried to dope up the Chinese with Opium.

The native Americans of today are probably just as resistant as white men are to alcohol, for exactly the same reason that they no longer die of the common flu - natural selection - the fittest have survived.

Is everything clear to you now AP, or will you still insist that I am a racist?

/Doomdark

 

[unmerged(175)]

i dont think you are racist, i just think that it is a racist comment. I didnt mean you to take it that serously.


btw, i am going into 8th grade (summer vacation right now), so technicly, i would not be able to understand that (per you anyways)

 

[JCQUARTO]

Quote:

those who survived were made into alcoholics so they could offer no resistance.

I have many friends who are alcoholics. I think this forum is no place for bigoted alco-phobes!

(duh! before the bright kid gets up in arms, that was a joke)

 

[Doomdark]

i just think that it is a racist comment. I didnt mean you to take it that serously.

When someone calls me a 'racist ass' I tend to take it rather seriously. But... it isn't my job to teach you good manners.

/Doomdark

 

[unmerged(175)]

me good manners when you are making racist comments?

 

[unmerged(177)]

Well it seems that you, ApKicks and Doomie, are beginning a thirty years war. But have you realized that you both are forum veteran ? So you both receive the special +1 veteran bonus when you fight. And this means that you have a 50% chance each to win.

Well, you're strategist, so you should know that fighting must be done when you have superiority. So fight against novice...

Am I stupid to say that ? I wanna be a veteran, I wanna be a veteran, please.

I just hope this joke can close this useless fight. You both contribute well to this forum, so go on.

This is my christian hour I suppose.

Best regards

Raf