Nomadic Taxation of Vassals

[arnoldz]

Playing as a Jewish Nomad, I've noticed that the tax revenue from my city and church vassals is about 20% lower than I'm expecting. In other words:
Revenue = Vassal Income x Law Percentage x .2

I'm expecting to see 35% of my vassals' income due to my law settings, but instead am only getting about 7%. Is there another variable in the tax calculation the I'm missing?

 

[Pigeoncount]

Their opinion of you also matters, if it's less than zero, they'll give you less income. Some screenshots would be nice to see exactly what's up, though.

As a Nomad, though, taxes are completely unimportant. Just go raiding for all of the money you could ever need.

 

[arnoldz]

Are you sure? The docs say that vassals of nomads provide full taxes and levies regardless of opinion. Also I tried gifting some money to some particularly pissed vassals and saw no change.

Screenshots to follow when I get a chance...

 

[Pigeoncount]

Thank you, let me take a quick look myself, it's been a while since I've been nomadic.

 

[steveo_in_sd]

Make sure you don't have too many holdings (i.e. more than 1) or vassal count, as that will decrease your income.

 

[arnoldz]

Make sure you don't have too many holdings (i.e. more than 1) or vassal count, as that will decrease your income.

Doesn't having too many holdings just reduce the income from your direct holdings?

 

[steveo_in_sd]

Click on the shield for your primary title and that will bring up the income screen for your realm. In the bottom left area is a breakdown of your revenue sources. Hover over each item to see how much income is being generated, and by whom/what, for each source type. Modifiers, such as having too many holdings and low opinion, will be displayed as well in the hover text.

 

[arnoldz]

Finally got a few minutes to get my screen shots.

First, here's the vassal list under my portrait. Note my very rich Grand Mayor. He has an income of 267.6. My burgher tax is at 35%, and he is a patrician so is allowed to keep more of his gold, lowering my take by an additional 50%. Since I'm Nomadic, opinion doesn't matter; but he has a positive opinion of me anyway. So, the total expected tax from my Grand Mayor is correctly displayed: 267.6 * .35 * .5 = 46.8

Now let's check the finance screen under the shield menu. Note that for some reason, my city tax is only 18.73. This is about 40% of the 46.8 I was expecting. This is true even though the hover-over claims that I'm receiving 46.8 from my Grand Mayor.

If your'e sharp, you'll have noticed that my Church Tax is also much lower than expected. Instead of the 14.7 advertised in the vassal list, I'm receiving only 5.94, again also 40%.

To get the above screen shots, I dumped a bunch of barons from being my vassals. Barons didn't seem to count against my vassal total; they aren't included in the count in the top right of the screen:

My total vassal breakdown after dumping all but one of my barons is:
7 Clans
1 Ecumenical Patriarch
18 Dukes
3 Counts
1 Baron

Could it be that, even though barons were not counting toward my official vassal count, they were counting towards the count when it came to calculating tax penalties? Is it possible that clans count as well? If barons and clans both count, my total vassal count would be 30, 3 over my limit. Fascinating. What happens if I liberate three clans?
After liberating three clans, note that my city and church taxes go way up! Although, not quite to 100% of what I was expecting...

But... it turns out I jumped to a hasty conclusion. I liberated a fourth clan, bringing my total (not official) vassal count down to 26, and taxes just went back to around where they were. It looks like I got suckered by another bug I've noticed: the "city taxes periodically double" bug.

So then, my last gambit for the night will be to liberate my one remaining baron and see what happens.

Well, that was unexpected. So, I will now declare CK2 finances the winner and will go to bed. This is looking more and more like it should be a bug report....

 

[steveo_in_sd]

You own several barony-level title directly in your demense, and perhaps counties with baronies (as opposed to 'empty') as the capitol, as well. This is your problem. You are allowed only one, your travelling tent city, without penalty. This is what is causing you to receive reduced taxes from all your vassals. I'm not sure if it causes reduced levies for nomadic governments, but it sure does for feudal.

 

[arnoldz]

That's rough. As a nomad, you frequently wind up with a good chunk of barony level titles as you pillage conquered lands. If you lose that much vassal income, perhaps pillaging and conquering isn't really worth it.

 

[arnoldz]

Hey Paradox! If this is the case, can we get it added to the tooltip?

 

[Zsrai]

That's rough. As a nomad, you frequently wind up with a good chunk of barony level titles as you pillage conquered lands. If you lose that much vassal income, perhaps pillaging and conquering isn't really worth it.

Short term penalty for long term gain. Just don't hold 50 holdings and pillage them at once, only hold a few at a time.

EDIT:

Hey Paradox! If this is the case, can we get it added to the tooltip?

You get an alert that says you have more holdings than you are allowed. Your Demesne Limit on the top of the UI should say 3/1 right now too.

 

[arnoldz]

That was the problem! Ditched my baronies and now my finances are as I expect:

Note that with Nomads, there really isn't a good indication of your demesne holdings. It's been removed from the HUD in the top-right:

And it's not in your portrait info either. So it's not at all obvious when it's a problem and there are no tool-tips that tell you what the penalty is.

Anyway, thank you steveo and Zsrai for setting me straight on this. Would have taken me forever to figure that out on my own.

 

[fleetothemoon]

I actually made a suggestion a while ago to make the penalties for "inefficient land management" more clear on the tooltip:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...land-management-needs-to-be-clarified.881669/