It's pink vs blue because all you have to do is tweak the parameters slightly to make the supply system work.
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This should be in PI's next patch! It is by far the most realistic and it would prevent many of the present issues with supply.
Question, I've not tried myself, but your telling me that if I surround Moscow instead of just capturing it, the rest of Russia will run out of supplies?? Umm....I thought this game was supposed to be Historical??
I don't like the Supply made at IC... I see the following happening: I do an amphibious assault in a relatively unattractive region, take 3-4 regions and dig in, pop out 10 IC in each territory (prefabricated ofc) and get supplies produced directly at the beachhead... No more need for supply for the beach troops AND i get my IC increased as well. Oh! and noone can interupt the supplies either, terrific! I wonder why the allies didnt land a few industrial areas the size of berlin in normandy?
Quite a nice deal in my eyes even if it will cost alot to produce... feels about as gamey as having a lvl 10 naval base ready to be deployed (although the naval base makes more sense to me at least)
Myself, i think i will just wait for PI to fix the supply glitches (although the capital bottleneck/logistic bombing troubles really should have a extra look at it)
A simple "prioritize region" on the supplymap to build some sort of store would be lovely
Quite a nice deal in my eyes even if it will cost alot to produce... feels about as gamey as having a lvl 10 naval base ready to be deployed (although the naval base makes more sense to me at least)
Myself, i think i will just wait for PI to fix the supply glitches (although the capital bottleneck/logistic bombing troubles really should have a extra look at it)
A simple "prioritize region" on the supplymap to build some sort of store would be lovely
Or do we use my system, which would actually require less processor time?
No, not really. A wing of four strat bombers can level an IC 10 city in one good sortie, regardless of air cover or AA (these don't interrupt the bombing mission, just reduce the bomber strength and org). I've done it plenty of times.
So my bombers can either attack one province with 10 IC in a sortie, completely leveling it, or they can attack 1 of the 10 single-IC provinces. Damage 10 IC in one attack, or damage 10 IC in ten attacks. Given that AA (useless as it is right now) and interceptors don't interrupt bomber attacks, it makes far more sense to have 10 provinces each with 1 IC, than one province with 10 IC. Force the bombers to make ten sorties instead of one, exposing them to enough interceptions to ground them for awhile until they recover strength and org.
Also, it appears that province recovery rates aren't entirely proportional. That means that even if your 10 1-IC provinces are leveled, they'll recover far, far faster than a single 10 IC province.
If you use Koochy's system, a smart player will spam IC wherever he can.
Edit: I think supply dumps are a bad idea. They're just another level of micromanagement which add little to the game, other than making it easier for the player to complete a WC (they certainly won't help the AI). I'd much rather have the current system, fixed, along with supplies being assigned directly to the units rather than to the provinces they happen to be squatting in at that particular moment. Dumping supplies in a province clearly isn't working as intended, as the game often loses track of which set of supplies belongs to which group of units.
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The IC system have some merrits, though it has to be kept at core provinces only and maybe even the five largest industrial provinces. If one gets bombed the depot is moved to the next largest one.
The current system where you only have one are a HUGE and I mean HUGE exploit in the game. Even in multiplayer this is a HUGE exploit. If you have good Strategic (even Tactical bombers will work) you can bomb Berlin or London into rubble in no time. There is no amount of Interceptors, Radars and airfields that will make a difference before it is too late.
As I have said before, the current system design is a very good one but it has majors flaws that in my opinion needs to be corrected.
1. Supplies MUST be able to trace not only via road/rial-road but through seaports as well. Otherwise we will get all these rather silly notions that Italy send supplies to Africa through Turkey via land route. Germany send supplies to Norway through land route. Japan send supplies to India through land route.
2. Ports should act as small supply depots and be able to store supplies there depending on its size, maybe ten times what they can bring in in a day or so.
Anyone who thinks that the current system don't have a major flaws and that tracing land routes everywhere is a good working solution, please state your reasons?
I have not seen ONE good explanation so far why this is a good system and NOT flawed in its design. I do think that the supply system are good, as long as the distances are reasonable and there is no alternative than using roads and rail-ways. There ares still some quirks to work out, but I think PI will find and correct those in 1.3.
BUT PLEASE.... include port to port transfer of supplies... the game are really hurting becasue this can't be done.
And as a respond to those who want to be able to create manual depots... this would be a BROKEN feature. PI would never EVER be able to program tha AI to use this properly and therefore such a system had to be completely automated by the AI, even for the human player. In my opinion all and every depots (exceppt those in core provinces) should be removed and replaced with something else. Such as explained above.
Supplies through puppets and allies are one other thing that must happen, even when you have port to port connection with your other landmass.
The current system where you only have one are a HUGE and I mean HUGE exploit in the game. Even in multiplayer this is a HUGE exploit. If you have good Strategic (even Tactical bombers will work) you can bomb Berlin or London into rubble in no time. There is no amount of Interceptors, Radars and airfields that will make a difference before it is too late.
As I have said before, the current system design is a very good one but it has majors flaws that in my opinion needs to be corrected.
1. Supplies MUST be able to trace not only via road/rial-road but through seaports as well. Otherwise we will get all these rather silly notions that Italy send supplies to Africa through Turkey via land route. Germany send supplies to Norway through land route. Japan send supplies to India through land route.
2. Ports should act as small supply depots and be able to store supplies there depending on its size, maybe ten times what they can bring in in a day or so.
Anyone who thinks that the current system don't have a major flaws and that tracing land routes everywhere is a good working solution, please state your reasons?
I have not seen ONE good explanation so far why this is a good system and NOT flawed in its design. I do think that the supply system are good, as long as the distances are reasonable and there is no alternative than using roads and rail-ways. There ares still some quirks to work out, but I think PI will find and correct those in 1.3.
BUT PLEASE.... include port to port transfer of supplies... the game are really hurting becasue this can't be done.
And as a respond to those who want to be able to create manual depots... this would be a BROKEN feature. PI would never EVER be able to program tha AI to use this properly and therefore such a system had to be completely automated by the AI, even for the human player. In my opinion all and every depots (exceppt those in core provinces) should be removed and replaced with something else. Such as explained above.
Supplies through puppets and allies are one other thing that must happen, even when you have port to port connection with your other landmass.
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Your system is nothing more than an addendum to the current one. Even if units have a 30 day supply reserve (or mini-supply dump) built in, they still are going to have to trace supply lines either from the capital, or from IC provinces, depending on the overall supply system.
But yes, I do believe that individual units should have a 30-day supply built in, because the current system for 30 days of supply simply doesn't work and its confusing (though that might just be because it doesn't work).
However, I also think we should be able to designate supply depots which will stockpile supplies, because, honestly, individual units having 30 days worth of supplies simply isn't enough to prevent some of the mentioned exploits in this thread, such as paratroopers or logistical bombing. Six to nine months, on the other hand......
:rofl:
So it doesn't matter that you've just made the game ahistorically easy for Japan because "they'll eventually win anyway". Even though this means Japan can devote far more resources, earlier, to its naval buildup, because it doesn't need to fight nearly as hard in Asia to win.
Given that you've just admitted your system is completely ahistorical, I'm not terribly interested in arguing its merits further.
Advantage, me.
You really think it's comparably ridiculous for supplies to be produced all over the place in a decentralized fashion (but where we know factories are) and to have supplies ALL show up at ONE POINT?
You are either insane, or just too stubborn to admit I'm obviously right.
And yet you HAVEN'T shown that it wouldn't solve the flaw in the supply network of the capital being a bottleneck. Because, you know, IT ACTUALLY WOULD.
If you depower logistical strikes enough that it's not useful to focus them entirely on the capital, then it won't be useful to focus them ANYWHERE, and therefore you might as well remove them from the game.
Nah, you get a "you can't read" reply, because I demonstrated mathematically that the system would not be CPU-intensive
This is not true. I've demonstrated it's not true. Would you like to explain what part of my analysis was flawed?
1) I feel like it probably would be better if units could only be deployed at IC or in core provinces. It's kind of silly to let Germany deploy a newly-made tank division 5 provinces away from Moscow.
2) Because being able to spawn supplies anywhere you want eliminates the entire point of having to manage your supply lines.
3) Because it's redundant. IC are already in the game, they are conceptually linked to supply production, there's no compelling reason to add ANOTHER building to take away that one function.
Sure, but they're still redundant. Moreover, unless you can deploy supply depots ANYWHERE you can control (which would eliminate the purpose of the logistics system), this doesn't provide the advantage of e.g. giving the UK local supply sources in their colonies.
My understanding of the current game rules heavily favor keeping a few well-guarded IC provinces. All the threads on strat bombing I've seen have recommended concentrating your IC so you can give narrower orders to your interceptors and don't need to build AA in as many places.
Peace.
[/QUOTE]I'd argue that you shouldn't be able to deploy said tank division right at the front.
They need something to fix it. I invaded Yugoslavia as Italy and halfway through the invasion, I discovered they bombed my roadways to oblivion. And since the game couldn't directly transfer the supplies from Roma to the northern half of Yugoslavia, the game decided to transfer all of my supplies some 100 miles north and back again. And with the distance, most of the supplies were depleted before it even reached my divisions.
Btw, does anyone know where the thread is that deals with trading? I can't seem to find the FAQ or help section for that.
Btw, does anyone know where the thread is that deals with trading? I can't seem to find the FAQ or help section for that.
That's a reasonable criticism, except: can you prefabricate IC? I thought it was only buildable on the province screen.
Why do you believe that? Have you actually calculated how much it would alter the necessary processor time?
I agree with you 100%. If you read the first link in the OP, you'll notice that this is one of THE four critical flaws in the supply system as it stands today.
So you admit that you want the game to be 100% historical through every playthrough, no matter what moves the player makes? Hmmm... Doesn't sound very logical to me.... Perhaps you'd prefer reading a nice history book?
Anyway, like I said, you'd have to have your army sitting around for 6 to 9 months on a border with a heavily weakened enemy, just twiddling their thumbs waiting for the enemy to possibly run out of supplies.
That will, obviously, preclude their use elsewhere and leave you vulnerable. Of course, to get around that, you could just finish them off since they're likely already weak and not much of a threat if they can't even manage to lift the siege, which would be more efficient anyway. But then, considering that garbage you call "logic" you keep spewing at us, I wouldn't really expect you to do the efficient thing. Instead, you'd prefer to find "exploits" which take longer to carry though than simply invading. :rofl:
But hey, its your time to waste. Like I said, you want to have most of your army sitting on a static border for 6 to 9 months, rather than finishing off the already weak opponent and then freeing up those troops for other theaters, thats your business.
Hey, everyone? Notice how he took what I said, and then claimed I said something completely unrelated?