No way to undo obvious mistakes without save scumming?

[Dayvit78]

Hi all,

What better way to learn the rules of a game than to die by breaking just one of them? It seems most of my campaigns end due to my own mistake based on misunderstanding game rules, rather than something that would have ended the reign of an actual medieval ruler.

My most recent game ended because, being an overly excited first female ruler of a distinguished 20 generation dynasty, forgot to MARRY MATRIMONIALLY until I realized it when I was 40 years old and saw that my son had my husband's dynasty shield. I know they used to have a warning that you are the last of the dynasty, but I didn't see it this time. Even better would be if they had a warning when you got married - are you sure you want to marry normally?

Other game ending mistakes I've made:

• Accidentally gave Kingdom of Norway, instead of Kingdom of Lithuania to a vassal, thereby losing almost all of my demesne provinces. I realized this right away, but there's no undo button. In real life, wouldn't there would be people saying - are you sure you want to give up this title?
  
• Did not realize to make consistent all my kingdom inheritance laws, so my female Emperor lost all demesne provinces except the capital because all the Kingdoms had absolute agnatic. Lesson learned for next game which wasn't too long since all the news kings promptly declared war on me, stole the title and ended my game

I love the game and I don't do save scumming, but I do wish for a few "undo" buttons or double check warnings.

 

[Kipman2000]

I’ve made some similar mistakes through the years as well. Wanted to give out a duchy to a vassal, including transfer of the de jure vassal counties. So I marked the “include sub holdings”, but forgot I also held some counties in those duchies. So I gave away half of my personal holdings. Was a bit of a war to get them back as soon as possible.

 

[Evangeline]

Just exit the game with Ctrl+Alt+Delete so that it doesn't save. Then reload it and you should be back at the start of your game year, without your misclick having ruined everything. Might have to replay a few months, but still an okay solution.

 

[USAF_777]

My #1 cause of savescumming, even in Ironman, is mistakes handing out titles. Accidentally make someone the wrong government type, accidentally give them something I wanted to give to someone else and don't wanna retract it, misclick and give away my own duchy instead of another, mess up complicated division plans, delete or create the wrong titles at the wrong time... I really wish there was some kind of draft title handout that you can confirm after seeing the results.

 

[Rags17]

In one of my recent playthroughs I had the same thing. I joined a Holy Order and quickly ranked up and then became Chaste, then took the Seduction focus and screwed around until I created a son, then immediately Legitimized him.

Problem solved !

This game has numerous ways to solve the same problem !

 

[makaramus]

oh no you imprisoned a serial killer vassal while your council didnt agree with it and you didnt notice it? Now entire kingdom hates you
...
GIVE ME A "are you sure" SCREEN WTF O_O

 

[Lordriq]

Well, there are ways to double check yourself too, like reading the text really carefully. And conserning handing out titles: the map actually highlights the title you have selected in the "give title"-screen.

In my opinion the game already has enough pop-up messages as it is.

And also in my opinon, failing horribly is the best way to learn the game!

 

[Arsonik]

Failing horribly because you accidently clicked the wrong button for example is not a great way to reinforce learning at all, in my opinion. There is no reason why you shouldn't just reload from your last save file in that case. When I pull something major like a crusade victory I always backup my save file in case I make a huge blunder of things while passing out titles.

 

[Lordriq]

Yes, I agree loading an ealier save file is perfectly fine for times like that, I even do that in Ironman games.

 

[yequr]

My #1 cause of savescumming, even in Ironman, is mistakes handing out titles. Accidentally make someone the wrong government type, accidentally give them something I wanted to give to someone else and don't wanna retract it, misclick and give away my own duchy instead of another, mess up complicated division plans, delete or create the wrong titles at the wrong time... I really wish there was some kind of draft title handout that you can confirm after seeing the results.

Wrong vassal government type certainly is the absolute worst - it's not even your own fault (there really should be a preview). I've observed people just becoming Prince-Bishops or Lord Mayors when being granted a (Castle!) County for seemingly no reason. At first, I thought you get the theocracies by giving land to learning-educated guys or court chaplains, but... it doesn't entirely make sense, and I can't explain the Lord Mayors (except in one case, where a guy actually used to be a mayor as he had a city claim). It's so annoying, and they are painful to get rid of without tyranny.

What even causes it?

 

[Evangeline]

That's a current bug that occurs if the city/bishropic in that provice either doesn't have a mayor/bishop yet OR the guy you're giving it to is a different religion from the bishop and thereby replaces him. When you give the county to someone and click "include lower titles", the game currently mistakenly bestows the lower titles *first* and the county title afterwards, so that your guy becomes a grand mayor or prince bishop. So always make sure to generate mayors and bishops before bestowing the county and then select "include lower titles". Or bestow only the county and then give him the city and bishopric afterwards.

 

[Kumicho]

Even better would be if they had a warning when you got married - are you sure you want to marry normally?

Uh, there *is* a warning, in red, that says something to the effect of "Warning! All children won't be born of your dynasty!" I think you just missed it.

 

[yequr]

That's a current bug that occurs if the city/bishropic in that provice either doesn't have a mayor/bishop yet OR the guy you're giving it to is a different religion from the bishop and thereby replaces him. When you give the county to someone and click "include lower titles", the game currently mistakenly bestows the lower titles *first* and the county title afterwards, so that your guy becomes a grand mayor or prince bishop. So always make sure to generate mayors and bishops before bestowing the county and then select "include lower titles". Or bestow only the county and then give him the city and bishopric afterwards.

Hmm, thanks... that makes sense, although, looking at my most recent such development, there has to be another case - former holding owners (presumably) getting their old government type back:

Spoiler

It's the only possible reason, unless it's truly random.
I was not using the lower titles thing (otherwise I would have made him Satrap directly as he had the best stats in the satrapy, and was going to be the Satrap), and definitely granted the 2 cities to other guys before. At least the claim on that city 2-3 counties over implies where he came from - I think I didn't transfer it to my vassal when building it and he kicked out Mr. Kamnai in a de-jure war? (the subholding CB seems to do that sometimes) Maybe it just got revoked from him for whatever reason.
Something like that, and I didn't see the &~#*§+$/?%ing city barony claim due to using char finder. Sneaky sneaky.

 

[Dayvit78]

Well, there are ways to double check yourself too, like reading the text really carefully. And conserning handing out titles: the map actually highlights the title you have selected in the "give title"-screen.

In my opinion the game already has enough pop-up messages as it is.

And also in my opinon, failing horribly is the best way to learn the game!

I think the fact that there are so many popups is why sometimes I go too fast. Your finger memory is already primed to double click. I know there's red text there, but ... it only helps if you weren't expecting it, otherwise you click right through. I do feel this game is perfect for people with ADD - always something new to distract you even though you're trying to focus on your grand strategy. But for me, I try to stay focused, which ironically results in me clicking quickly through things that are unrelated... but maybe important.

 

[Strangedane]

I think the fact that there are so many popups is why sometimes I go too fast. Your finger memory is already primed to double click. I know there's red text there, but ... it only helps if you weren't expecting it, otherwise you click right through. I do feel this game is perfect for people with ADD - always something new to distract you even though you're trying to focus on your grand strategy. But for me, I try to stay focused, which ironically results in me clicking quickly through things that are unrelated... but maybe important.

But wouldn't it just be a matter of time before muscle memory also pressed you past the next pop-up?
And then the next, and the next.

Honestly, I really don't want more pop-ups to push, there's already WAY too many "are you sure?" buttons.
Maybe an audio clue could work, but asking for another visual clue, when there's already one, is just excessive screencluttering for no reason.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

i do think an undo button would be handy, as long as it's only for the last action. mousos are easy to make

 

[makaramus]

But wouldn't it just be a matter of time before muscle memory also pressed you past the next pop-up?
And then the next, and the next.

Honestly, I really don't want more pop-ups to push, there's already WAY too many "are you sure?" buttons.
Maybe an audio clue could work, but asking for another visual clue, when there's already one, is just excessive screencluttering for no reason.

I disagree here!
Those popups should not be eveywere

there should be only if
1)if your male heir not gonna his own children at marriage(or any heir that can easly take over empire)
2)if you are going aganist will of council(Wich is very important)
3)if you are going to give huge title away that will break your empire (as example as king giving away king title) game should give you a pop up message and say "hey dude... you are about to lose half your kingdom are you sure about that? "
I mean do this and you will see those pop ups rarely!

 

[Lordriq]

2)if you are going aganist will of council(Wich is very important)

As stated above, this already has a warning

And besides, doing it only gives you some innocent tyranny that can enhance your FUN!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

My #1 cause of savescumming, even in Ironman, is mistakes handing out titles. Accidentally make someone the wrong government type, accidentally give them something I wanted to give to someone else and don't wanna retract it, misclick and give away my own duchy instead of another, mess up complicated division plans, delete or create the wrong titles at the wrong time... I really wish there was some kind of draft title handout that you can confirm after seeing the results.

While I usually manage not to do this it's pretty cumbersome. Fore sure it would be nice to have a better UI for distributing titles. Especially trying to transfer vassalage is a nightmare and sometimes the game doesn't even allow it because reasons (usually viceroyalty blocking). Keeping things tidy is a major pain, and that's *before* the subjects start gutting who owns what.

 

[makaramus]

As stated above, this already has a warning

And besides, doing it only gives you some innocent tyranny that can enhance your FUN!

its a small "x" and small textbox is warning! SOMETIMES YOU DONT EVEN SEE IT BECAUSE YOU DONT ALLWAYS COUNCIL EMPOWERMENT!