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Waffen9999

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So I'm playing as the Nicene Empire in the 4th Crusade scenario and managed to restore the Empire. Unfortunately, I can't seem to re-raise the Varangian Guard. I read on another thread it doesn't seem to possible to do so. Is there any way to jerry rig them back in? Seems like an oversite that you can't restore them to the fold. Any thoughts? Anyone?
 

Naughtius Maximus

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So I'm playing as the Nicene Empire in the 4th Crusade scenario and managed to restore the Empire. Unfortunately, I can't seem to re-raise the Varangian Guard. I read on another thread it doesn't seem to possible to do so. Is there any way to jerry rig them back in? Seems like an oversite that you can't restore them to the fold. Any thoughts? Anyone?

Nope. The guard (as with all mercenary bands) are tied to their liege. When someone eliminates their liege, they become independent.

In the very unlikely chance they are landed, you'd need to have same religion/culture (force vassalize with Jade Dragon DLC) or have a claim on that title specifically (marriage claim only.) They're are damn hard to revassalize.

If they have no land you can outright forget about ever revassalizing them again.

This is the #1 reason why I would go to such lengths to conquer the Seljuks, Fatimids, and especially the ERE via claimant war. Never do it via holy war.

If you usurp their title via claim all their vassals become yours, including the massively powerful Mamluks (Fatimids), Ghilman (Seljuks), and/or Varangian Guards (ERE.)

Also be in the lookout for any merc bands that have conquered land off their former employer. You'll need to jump through the same hoops as I mentioned above for landed merc bands. Vassalized mercs are a very powerful and cheap manpower boost.
 
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Waffen9999

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Nope. The guard (as with all mercenary bands) are tied to their liege. When someone eliminates their liege, unless you have same religion/culture or have a claim on that title specifically, are damn hard to revassalize.

This is the #1 reason why I would go to such lengths to conquer the Seljuks, Fatimids, and especially the HRE via claimant war.

If you usurp their title via claim all their vassals become yours, including the massively powerful Mamluks (Fatimids), Ghilman (Seljuks), and/or Varangian Guards (ERE.)

No, the problem is they don't exist in the 1204 scenario. No one has ever had them. I was asking if there is a way to trigger their reemergence. Example in the Viking Age scenario you can fire the decision to make them. You would think there would be one in the 1204 scenario as well.
 

Naughtius Maximus

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Never played that scenario, so I didn't know.

I suppose the devs could write that in, but there are very few people who play any start past Alexiad, with the majority in the first three starts.

Make a topic on the suggestion forums, and good luck.
 

Byzantium2000

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Nope you don’t get them as Nicaea. Which is accurate the Varangian ceased to exist as a unique unit in Byzantium after the Fourth Crusade But I don’t know if it’s intentional since you get them as Palaiologos Byzantium.
 

manager2525

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You can read the wiki on how to recreate them - revassalize them.
I think that that the only prerequisite is having a landed germanic pagan close by. So if you can find one and land him there you go. I don't know how easy that is in 1204 though.

Strange thing my last 1204 playthrough as house Vranas i managed to recreate the Byz empire. To my amazement the Alan Rider company somehow became my unlanded vassals. I don't know if that was a bug or WAD. This was post HF. I believe that i lost the throne at one point (not my dynasty) so the AI had something to do with it.

Have a look if you somehow have auto vassalized any merc band.
 

Byzantium2000

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You can read the wiki on how to recreate them - revassalize them.
I think that that the only prerequisite is having a landed germanic pagan close by. So if you can find one and land him there you go. I don't know how easy that is in 1204 though.

Strange thing my last 1204 playthrough as house Vranas i managed to recreate the Byz empire. To my amazement the Alan Rider company somehow became my unlanded vassals. I don't know if that was a bug or WAD. This was post HF. I believe that i lost the throne at one point (not my dynasty) so the AI had something to do with it.

Have a look if you somehow have auto vassalized any merc band.
Their is no decision to restore the Varangian guard post 1204. Their not even in the game 1204-1261.

Currently you cannot get the Varangian guard in that timeframe, they don’t exist. And honestly shouldn’t exist going by history.
 
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manager2525

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Their is no decision to restore the Varangian guard post 1204. Their not even in the game 1204-1261.

Currently you cannot get the Varangian guard in that timeframe, they don’t exist. And honestly shouldn’t exist going by history.

Thanks for clearing this out. The wiki mentions nothing about the date limitation.
https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Mercenaries
From a historical point of view you are absolutely right that it make no sence of having a late game decision to form them. From a gameplay though they should be giving them at least one mercenary band since they have no Holy Order available until they capture Antioch plus they need to face enemies that have vassals mercs like the Mamluks and Ghilams. Again no big deal for a human player but the AI always fails misserably as Byzantium after HF. Too awful ever by historical measures.

As for randomly vassalizing a merc company after reestablishing the Byz empire has it happened to anyone else???
 

Byzantium2000

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Not me but I think the requirements for nations joining you are that they like you, are Orthodox or your cultural group so maby that includes Mercs by accident. All I know is Hungary randomly joining me killed my 1214 Nicea run.

Also talking about issues I playing as Alexios ii Komnenos 1182 used a Great Conquest for Egypt against the Ayyubids and ending up vassaling them getting the Ghilmans alongside them. Of course I got deposed immediately by the stronger Ayyubids but it was an interesting game.

Also I won’t tell you how I know but Vassal Mercs are gonna be nerfed real soon. Especially the Ghilmans and Mamluks.
 

knppel

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Later start dates have not being worked on in ages, for once- oversights there (that also are not mentioned on the wiki) seem logical.

As for Ghilman and Seljuks getting nerfed, both these merc bands origin from pre Sword-of-Islam, were Egypt and the Seljuks were not playable by default. And while it's been taken in account for earlier start dates(or rather, those that were introduced in later patches) and the overworked 1066 one, were Egypt starts broke and you can't just right away abuse the shit out of your merc stack, if you have it, a little nerf can't hurt them imo.
I usually play 867, and Egypt is stable almost every game, even when everyone revolts the Sultan can just beat revolts with the Mamluks.
 

Byzantium2000

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Later start dates have not being worked on in ages, for once- oversights there (that also are not mentioned on the wiki) seem logical.

As for Ghilman and Seljuks getting nerfed, both these merc bands origin from pre Sword-of-Islam, were Egypt and the Seljuks were not playable by default. And while it's been taken in account for earlier start dates(or rather, those that were introduced in later patches) and the overworked 1066 one, were Egypt starts broke and you can't just right away abuse the shit out of your merc stack, if you have it, a little nerf can't hurt them imo.
I usually play 867, and Egypt is stable almost every game, even when everyone revolts the Sultan can just beat revolts with the Mamluks.
Of course have you seen the Mongol stack in the files? Theirs a reason Genghis dosent have his armies pre 1220.
 

knppel

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Oh yeah I forgot to mention these, of course the mongols did get a little workover since the beginning, namely in Horse Lords. A good one by that, in my opinion, specially now that the game has been developed far further: Even without the specified mongol-invasion-event it just so tends to happen at least once every hundred years, that some strong horde evolves, eventually to the point where it raids up into the balkan and western europe.

That said, same as the mongols Egypt's Mamlukes were some sort of "end boss" by game design, being harder to handle than anything else around, when we did not have to worry about other stuff such as vassal limits, threat or a discontent council. The same counts for the Varangian Guard, with the difference of them being already comparably nerfed (if the comparison is taken with mamluks/ghilman).
The simple reason for this is, ERE was playable since the very beginning, hence why it did not get that op a merc stack.

I personally don't mind they left them in with SoI. But when you observe a revolt in early game egypt and in early game Byzantine Empire, you'll see the difference in power- the Emperor will just be screwed against larger factions, while the Sultan of Egypt, even with everyone and their cousins in revolt, will smash them right away by sending out the Mamluks.
 

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You can read the wiki on how to recreate them - revassalize them.
I think that that the only prerequisite is having a landed germanic pagan close by. So if you can find one and land him there you go. I don't know how easy that is in 1204 though.

Strange thing my last 1204 playthrough as house Vranas i managed to recreate the Byz empire. To my amazement the Alan Rider company somehow became my unlanded vassals. I don't know if that was a bug or WAD. This was post HF. I believe that i lost the throne at one point (not my dynasty) so the AI had something to do with it.

Have a look if you somehow have auto vassalized any merc band.

Might be because recreating the ERE after Fourth Crusade prompts all "titled" Orthodox characters with a decision to become vassals of the new emperor. Alan Riders may have been Orthodox and have chosen to accept.

Edit: maybe there is no prompt. I thought I read there was a desicion like this in the dev dairy.......
 
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Might be because recreating the ERE after Fourth Crusade prompts all "titled" Orthodox characters with a decision to become vassals of the new emperor. Alan Riders may have been Orthodox and have chosen to accept.

Edit: maybe there is no prompt. I thought I read there was a desicion like this in the dev dairy.......
Includes same culture group I had Catholic Hungary join me cause the ruler converted to Greek.